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1e and 2e used PC rules for NPCs. Even those MM elves were led by NPCs of higher character level. Up until 3e, NPC meant "a character built like a PC but controlled by the DM." Roving gangs of adventurers, which were a type of encounter in AD&D as well as BECMI D&D, consisted entirely of a group...

Do you think 5e is amenable to writing up a chart to create NPCs of various CRs?

I don't expect PCs and NPCs to all have identical abilities, but I do expect PC classes to have some reflection in the game world. Like, if a PC is a Cleric of Sune, then I expect there to be NPC clerics of Sune, and whatever differences in their abilities exist should have some kind of explanation.

That's pretty close to how NPC mages were built, using the the original 5e books.

So what do y'all do when you need a CR 5 bard NPC?

Whoa there. I didn't call anyone stupid, and I think it's very uncharitable to say something like that about people who are just starting out. A new player's ignorance is profound. Some people pick things up and find them obvious, other things may not be as obvious to as many people. I think...

For AD&D, that would totally work. I just don't see how that would work in 5e. What are you improvising it based on? There's no Level 6 Wizard in the MM, and as noted above, the capabilities of PCs are quite different than NPCs in 5e.

Well, they need someone to tell them.

I do actually. Let's seem, Jake here has rolls dice 22 hit points. I own plenty of published modules and dozes of examples of NPCs statted up exactly like that. The ones with names have ability scores.

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? Is there something about being a new DM that means you won't need a CR 2 Mage? If anything I think it's more of a disservice to new DMs and their groups there isn't a robust way of dashing out many, many NPCs on a theme, with appropriate CRs.

I'm not assuming anything. P.92 of the DMG (2014) says you can use a monster stat block, or you can create one like a PC using class and levels. Off-hand, I'm not sure there are any examples of the latter in print. The only real evidence this was ever seriously considered is the existence of the...

That's now how AD&D worked. Again, you would have like 3-18 bandits, and they would led by like a 3rd-level fighter or something. Anything that was basically a person and had more than 4 HD would definitely have a class and level. Most "monster" writeups were limited to 1 or 2 HD warrior types...

I don't get where you are coming from at all. In 1E or 2e, an NPC would literally just be a 5th level fighter or a 12th-level mage. Non-player character used to mean explicitly a character build like a PC but controlled by the DM; anything else was a "Monster," including Normal Men, Pirates, and...

5e already leaned into a distinction between PC stat blocks and NPCs. The 2024 revision has deepened this divide; whereas giving monsters PC levels was before only discouraged, now it is not even contemplated. Essentially, now, every NPC is a monster, and the GM's guide helpfully refers you to...

D&D is about the aesthetics. There are plenty of other games out there worth playing. If it's D&D, I expect it to stick pretty closely to existing aesthetics and lore, or make a conscious break for specific reasons. "It's a new edition, who cares?" has always frustrated me.

To me that's a big sticking point, because it suggests the different goliath types don't interbreed, which is exactly the sort of thing I thought they were moving away from.

Can Zeus make Morain a halfling thief of middling experience? Depending on the cosmology, probably "no" or "Yes, if he got the drop on him." But in no case would I allow that as a Wish. If you Wish that in my game, some halfling out there somewhere, who is a middling thief, now happens to be...

That's exactly what that says. Altering reality, to "almost anything." I don't understand your confusion. Let me ask you this: is "I wish Moradin was a halfling thief of middling experience?" a valid Wish?

It has a lot of limits. In AD&D, the limit was, "More likely to kill you or trap you in time than to actually be useful." In 5e, the limit is, if it it exceed the power of a normal spell or certain very specific things, it might not work as expected, and can burn out your ability to cast it...

Well, it's cast by mortals. So explain yourself, please?