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Yeah, I know. I hope mythusmage doesn't think I'm trying to steal his thunder. I think he wanted to restrict his thread to "what's your stance, and why", so I thought it would be courteous to start a new thread for discussion of the various pros and cons. It may not work out. I'm thinking...

This is really interesting. I'm pretty much in the boat with you folks so far, although hopefully we'll hear from some immersion and actor-stance folks as time goes on. Do any of you folks ever get hassled for not using Actor stance? A lot of people seem to see it as "real roleplaying", and...

I wanted to expand on Stance a bit more, since I think lumping it in with immersion complicates things. (I think Immersion is "internal" and Stance is "external", for instance.) Here are some possible types of stance, which I'm taking from the roleplaying supplement Sorcerer & Sword (because...

Hi all, We should probably respect mythusmage's wishes in this thread -- as the thread starter, he's within his rights to close the thread if he feels it strays too far. I think that level of immersion and the stances used to portray a character is a fascinating topic, though; I'd love to...

Hi all, mythusmage started a very interesting thread here about immersion and the various ways people portray their characters. He's stated that he'd like his thread to work more as a poll, and not discuss the relative merits of immersive versus non-immersive play, so out of respect for his...

Gaming's a social event like any other, for us. We play for a few hours on weekend evenings after pizza. You'd better believe there's beverages involved.

Majoru, we disagree on two things: How easy it is to get along with people in a group, and what the definition of a roleplaying game is. Convincing someone to change their mind on either point is probably impossible. :) For example, this: I totally disagree with this. I wouldn't know how to...

Well, it looks like mythusmage has it in his head that the creator of the thread is the owner of it. That's a shame. I don't think it's very much in the spirit of ENWorld, and it's kind of insulting to assume that discussion not endorsed by the first poster isn't allowed on an open forum. :(...

Sounds like you can just bring the artifact along with you on the railroad. :) Seriously, it sounds like you'd better talk to your GM about letting the group be prepared for the upcoming trip. Which really just means you being prepared, since everybody taking Vow of Poverty means it's all on...

Yeah. i think the topic more came up when some people said that they had played rules-light systems and their experience was so different from Dancy's study that they couldn't figure out where he was coming from, because their experiences involved faster play and didn't break out into constant...

See, fusangite, that's why I switched over to talking about Fizzgig-telling. It wasn't just to be cute. It made me realize that the debate is fundamentally about defining a word, and not about what we do at the table. I don't really care how other people define a word except where it causes...

I'm with you. Interactivity is essential to roleplaying. I don't think anybody's arguing against that. I'm letting you guys have the ground that storytelling as you define it is noninteractive. That's why I'm sticking to talking about Fizzgig-telling, which is similar but interactive. Yes, I...

Yeah, I think you're right. I think the issue is "Don't railroad". I think any game designer or GM who does it is stuck in the frickin' 80s. I honestly didn't realize anybody would still think it was a good idea. My issue, to distill it down, was that with that as a given, we still need to...

Odahan, here's that post where I was talking about storytelling-like techniques I find useful in play. I told mythusmage I'd grant him his definition of the word "Story", so I'm going to replace it in my posts with "Fizzgig", a made up word which I define as "collaboratively created sequence of...

Meanie.

Okay. I hear you. Why the stress? I was honestly hoping you wanted to go somewhere with this. I tell you what, I'll grant you your argument. I'll call the storytelling elements I use in gaming something else, and avoid the word story. I was genuinely interested in hearing about what...

Hi, Odhanan. I will quote an old post in a sec that refers to techniques lifted from storytelling that have nothing to do with railroading. Hopefully that'll be helpful. And yes, I'm not in essence disagreeing with mythusmage, if we take his argument purely to say that "RPGs are not stories...

If you like C&C, and see someone say something bad about it, I think your best bet would be to say "It sounds like it's not the game for you" and move on. I don't have an opinion about C&C at all, but I know people being goaded into losing their temper when I see it. You folks are being...

Thanks for clearing that up. I really couldn't tell whether you were intentionally being frustrating or if we just had a total failure to communicate. As I've stated before, I think some of your points are clear and obvious (GMs should not force play to follow a predetermined path) and other...

How is it about railroading? That portion of your post sounds like it's about railroading. It's the most concrete reason you've given as to why roleplaying shouldn't be storytelling. Okay. Great. GMs shouldn't railroad. And? We already knew that. It was brought up by someone else very early...