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I am inclined to agree with pemerton's assessment. For me, this is one reason why 4e (in the words of the OP) "lends itself to being 'stale' and 'boring'."

It's a pretty thorny problem when different people are after opposing kinds of "fun". Should a fight take 10 to 20 minutes, or about four times as long? Should determining how to open a secret passage require (absent demonstration) actual experiment, or should it be up to a toss of dice...

Maybe it is less interesting to some people because what once could matter is now seen as too dangerous unless it is reduced to "just fluff" that does not matter at all. There are only so many powers, feats and skills, and they are in sum rather more of a muchness -- some just numbers, others...

I don't agree that those selected late comers necessarily represent most of the field. Since you asked, though: 1) I don't know from OGL Conan. 2) HARP page 53 This is so limited already that it does not correspond to what I was talking about! 3) Hero Wars (1st printing) -- What a mess, with...

The MM has no "Prone" entry in the glossary. The DMG has this important advice on page 40: I would consider it fair warning to be informed that I cannot knock a snake prone whenever happened to be the first occasion the question arose. However, a 4e DM cognizant of this thread might find it...

I'm not familiar with the new Mongoose RQ, but I have read only good things about it (and especially the Combat Maneuvers) and I do very much like old Chaosium (1st-3rd ed.) RuneQuest. The first MRQ seems not to have had such appeal. A game that is a bit lighter is Paul Elliott's Zenobia, but...

Should we presume, then, that you rule the text not to be in the PHB? It is really not at all clear to me what point you are trying to make.

4e PHB p. 277: "PRONE...You're lying on the ground." p. 288: "When you are prone, you can crawl." p. 292: "If you've been knocked prone, you need to take a move action to get back on your feet." It looks to me as if prone is a snake's default condition. Has it any feet to get back on? There...

I do not think so. I do not expect that we shall see 23 pages of debate on that question! However, if you are for some reason unable to get closer than 60 inches or to extend the blade tip more than 42 inches, then indeed you are out of luck. Maybe you can throw the dagger.

Hey, if having to spend a "Fate Chip" to use your Power will satisfy you, then go ahead and suggest that to your DM. I'm just not seeing that as what you are really arguing for so far, though.

Sorry, but in no game I have ever seen would you be allowed to sit around and roll attacks as many times per minute as you please and force the referee therefore to declare dead some mass of figures. No, I am afraid that you would need the referee's approval to make any action valid...

Not when the player is stubbornly insisting that he can reach the troll despite the DM's statement to the contrary. The case is no different if the player is obstinate about something else. Once the proposition is understood and disposed of by the referee one way or another, that is the end of...

Actually, that is quite easily done by the simple expedient of declaring impossible whatever the rules do not stipulate. That is, one might notice, logically implied in the "down with the DM's discretion, up with rigid interpretation of the rules" position.

So? Thasmodeus and Hussar are pleased to exercise the privilege of a GM with none of the responsibility. If you are against democracy, then you can always go for their libertarian "every man for himself" plan!

double post

I was going to mention those as things you might try -- but they really are not to the point. You already have the Power, which is a 'rule' just as much as a "fate chip"! In fact, it is the very specificity and limitation of Powers, the prohibition against using given abilities if one has not...

That is very simply and obviously false. A player can do N O T H I N G in the DM's world without the DM's leave. The player's persona does not exist in the DM's world except as the DM wills. Player proposes, referee disposes. I do not know that I know all there is to know about the situation...

Everyone else is free to make suggestions. It is "ok" for the DM to make the final decision because that is WHY we have a DM in the first place. It is a game of limited information, and the DM allows us not to know things. You want to play a different kind of game? Suit yourself. They are...

No, that DM's table is the wrong place. This is really just common sense, being in touch with reality. I do not see how WotC could exercise any more practical "game police" power than TSR! The problem with your assumption that the DM must capitulate to your demand is that IT IS THE DM'S JOB...

The DM -- in old D&D, if not in 4e -- not only can but should consider relevant situations. If you're trying to swing your sword at a troll that is simply out of reach, intangible, or otherwise reasonably immune to your ministrations, then it is proper and expected that the DM should rule that...