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Just one. What are your thoughts on Neth, the living plane?

You are right here. I think that is the reason for these spirals into vehement oblivion: the fact these terms do not have agreed-upon definitions. I think I mentioned as much quite a bit upthread. The bolded part of your post are words picked straight from my brain; it is likely an inabilty of...

But that's just it. If you do THAT, for whatever reason, it's M/M. I think the difference here is that what you call M/M is what I call powergaming, assuming one's trying to get the most (power for their character) out of the system. Do you agree? Disagree?

I can honestly say that I really like both methods(point buy vs rolling) of generating stats. With pooint buy I can make who I want. With rolling I got find out what blast it was to play a character with a Str 6 and Con 2. If I can ever offer gaming advice, it's Str 6, Con 2. Try it. It's awesome.

With those ability scores, you wanted to make an educated noble knight. Good. High Int, High Cha. You wanted a social character, so you maxed your social attibutes, to the detriment(because you could have put the high scores there) of the physical attibutes. This is what I see as min/maxing...

I mean that separate prime material planes are in contact with the astral plane at the same time.

Or if the stat rolls ar good(same difference). But yeah. 'A lot' of cross-class skills for a fighter is '1 or more', I would think.

I think these cases are cases of metagaming, which, while I may be destroying the thread here, is also not an inherently bad thing. Why? Because you're adventurers are doing what they do because they do it well. To fix electrical problems, you don't just go find a journeyman. You find an...

Yeah, I know. For the most part, I'm still there.

I find this unfortunate, because all the extremes as well as the moderates are valid. You a world-shaking ass-kicker who can't read or even use a fork? Ok. You some dude who is not bad at everything but never gets to shine? Ok. Do these character types exist in RL? Yes. Will they survive the...

I don't think you lucky if people forget things in bed.

Okay, in that line of thinking, if I follow it correctly(caveat) could then more than one prime be congruent in the astral(as apparently they must be), and share, say, shadow planes as well? At this point it may become clear whether I correctly understood the lecture or not.:)

I've been kind of wrestling with this one, too, because I love the options but would really like the combat to flow well. If I come up with something, I'll let you know. Right now I'm thinking 'quick reference sheet'. Possibly that's just a band aid but great if it works.

But I don't think the label for said people is 'min/maxers'. Possibly Abhorrent, sure, but I'm just talking about min/maxers. Or trying to:) Edit: Hi, Rystil Arden!

Yes, and I'm sorry, PC. I knew this or worse could happen when I started this. Though, now that I've quoted you, I know how to change the colours of my words. Huzzah.

Not quite. Remember this is a team game. so "making your character the good one at this but is abysmal at doing this, so another character should.

Would it be? It would be consistent, sure; but just? On some thought of it, I think it might not be just to belittle anyone regardless of their gaming style. But it would definitely be consistent.

Unfortunately you simply cannot take the 'role' out of the character. A fully optomized combat monkey without a single point in any social or knowledge skills will be just that in society: a maladjusted retarded sociopath spat upon by the mercantile and nobility. People like this exist in real...

Sometimes grown men need to cry. Sometimes others need them to. It's my job to facilitate the process.

I see your position seems to be summed up quite nicely here, and there's nothing wrong with this opinion. In fact, it is also mine. However, MM, as I see it, is not sacrificing character for system advantage, it's sacrificing one system advantage for another. Optimization, and/or...