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Excellent and key question. Rolling doubles is something entirely new. Because of that, one needs to ask, "What is the rule for what happens when you roll doubles?" The answer is you "score a critical hit." It is defined right there is the power that tells you to use doubles for something...

No, it does not prove that "can' doesn't matter. The phrasing of "can score a critical hit" re-emphasizes that this change to the number required only gives a possibility of scoring a critical hit, as opposed to Holy Ardor which creates a new mechanic (doubles) and states a new rule (scores a...

Actually, I don't think Precision really does anything. It lets you know that, when some rule changes which number gives you a potential critical, the lower number (lower than 20) does not give you an automatic hit. This is not new, just a restatement of the obvious.

You assume that "score a critical hit" does not mean "score a critical hit" but means "potentially score a critical hit." That's an assumption, and a rather key one at that. I choose to assume they meant what they wrote and "score a critical hit" really means "score a critical hit," but that...

Fair enough. Holy Ardor grants you a "Critical Hit" if you roll doubles. You normally can't have a "Critical Hit" unless you also "Hit." Holy Ardor, however, bypasses this requirement. So, either you hit (implied by the fact that scored a critical hit) or you scored a critical hit but...

That's exactly what it means. It's a new rule that tells you when you score a critical, as opposed to the powers that change the number needed to poentially score a critcal hit.

Precision talks about powers that "allow" you to score a critical hit on numbers other than 20. Those powers (except Holy Ardor) all "allow" that critical hit only if the attack roll also is at least equal to the defense score. Sorry, I do not understand the question. Rolling two dice and...

No. because normally you are looking at the highest of two rolls, which uses all the normal rules. "Doubles" is an entirely new paradigm that applies only to Holy Ardor.

Not quite. The context of Precision is either: 1. Rolling a potential critical hit (that is , modifying the "Critical Hit" rule just above it), in which case it does not apply because Holy Ardor is about scoring a critical hit, not potentially getting one. or 2. Rolling a single die to hit...

:) Yes well, I admit it is, in some ways, pretty pointless. It's more of an intellectual exercise than anything else, and in that sense is valuable, even if only for the participants and not the reader.

Correct - it allows you to score a critical hit on a doubles - not on numbers other than a 20 in the context of a single attack roll (the context of Precision). Not to mention that Precision is referring to the rule just above it which gets replaced (not modified) by Holy Ardor. I am not sure...

Okay, I'll re-state my last argument, but with specific Precision arguments:. Precision merely notes you might critical on values other than 20, and reminds you that only a 20 is an automatic hit. That does not change the basic rule (re-formulated to include Precision) of "If you roll a...

As written, I suppose so, but it would likely never happen. I would hope they'd write something up exactly like that.

Actually, the lack of the word "can" is pretty vital. Critical Hit: "If you roll a 20 on the die when making an attack roll, you score a critical hit if your total attack roll is high enough to hit your target’s defense..." Precision has no effect on that whatsoever. Holy Ardor: "Whenever...

Ah, but my point is that I firmly believe that the rules, as written, support my view even better than yours. Since you believe the opposite, either way would be allowed under LFR rules. It would be a DM decision. What is not really clear to me is RAI. Did they really intend to create an...

Right now, for LFR, you've got a really good argument for playing it either way, as shown by this discussion, so it will be a DM's call until WotC puts out some form of clarification. I could see DM's calling it either way and standing behind that call - and they'd be correct (as in LFR...

Consdier it a rebuttable to the ealrtier Occam's Razor argument.

Hmm.. I read much of this thread, but not all of it. A couple points: 1. Suppressing "passive" magic is very complicated - no one likes having to recalculate everything on a character sheet. 2. The shutting off of active powers (and maybe active use of magical items) could work, but it...

Here's what I believe is a more accurate view: 1. Holy Ardor provides a new way to score a critical hit. 2. Since this is the case we can skip straight to applying critical damage. 1. Holy Ardor provides a potential critical hit (forcing the actual "score a critical hit" language to really...

Okay, so what is a critical hit? Page 276: "If you roll a natural 20, you attack might be a critical hit (page278). A critical hit deals maximum damage... So here we learn that if you get a critical hit, you deal maximum damage, and we learn it takes a 20 to possibly get a critical hit...