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I am sorry to cause confusion, but I was convinced by the nay-sayers, and changed my position with post #99 in the original thread. The paladin did wrong. He deserves two warnings for an alignment change to Chaotic (one for killing an unarmed man who was not resisting, and one for circumventing...

It is so written in the PHB chapter 3, in the section on the paladin class, under the heading "Class features", sub-headings "code of conduct" and "associates", and under the heading "ex-paladins". In my PHB 3.0 that is page 43. A single Chaotic act does not make a character Chaotic, any more...

He is also given an obligation to be judge and jury, not just executioner. And remember that paladin's gods are lawful as well as good. They believe that it is best to do things in an orderly, open fashion, and that wider issues must be considered in judging particular instances. They believe...

Scream, then. These things are not modern constructs: they were well established in ancient Greece and Rome 2,400 years ago (think of the trials of Socrates and Verres). Also, they were common in the Middle Ages and the good guys struggled for them where they did not prevail.

No. The correct conclusion from that premise is that the paladin's obligation to honourable conduct depends only on his involvement in the situation, and not on any quality of other people involved.

Honour is not what we owe to others. It is what we owe to ourselves.

The judge and jury were present, but they didn't do their job. The judge didn't public demonstrate a due process and fair trial. The jury didn't hear the defence or impartially consider the evidence. Not quite, fortunately. But red-handed enough. So why this unseemly haste to make sure that...

Okay, I agree so far. Now the question is "what would have been the Lawful thing to do in this case?" 1. Kill the guy in secret without allowing him to say anything. 2. Subdue or otherwise arrest the guy, tie him up, drag him out into a public place, announce openly what you had caught him...

Of course not. But it wouldn't have, so that is beside the point. The paladin could have struck for subdual damage. No he did not. He did not make sure and demonstrate in public that a due process of law was observed, and therefore he did not act as a judge. He did not listen to and...

On the other hand, an open, public punishment of her rapist with the approbation of the community is going to do her more good than thinking for the rest of her life that punishing him was a guilty secret. What is it going to do to her to have to lie when the missing man's relatives start...

Not in the modern society I live in it isn't. And unnecessary use of lethal force is never authorised. The paladin could easily have prevented that rape without any force whatsoever, and he could have prevented the rape and captured the perpetrator without using lethal force.

Doing so with wholly unnecessary lethal force is not good.

Good point. I am forced to agree. The paladin should not be stripped of his powers immediately, but unless he gets back on the straight and narrow in short order he is in danger of having his alignment changed to Chaotic Good, and as a Chaotic he would not be able to be a paladin. Well, I...

Very true. But since the suspect has been killed out of hand we'll never know whether he would have been able to back up his defence. This being the case, a lot of people are now feeling more ambivalent about paladins than they would have been if the suspect had been allowed his day in court...

I am sorry, I evidently didn't express myself well. I did not mean to claim that there was any possibility that a fair trial would acquit the guy. I only meant to claim that there was a chance that a trial in camera would raise anger and fears of persecution on the part of the perpetrator's...

If you want to bring law to a lawless land you have to demonstrate in public that the people that you punish have done something clearly wrong or forbidden in advance, that you are acting in an impersonal capacity, dispassionately, and without personal malice. This persuades the malefactor's...

Sorry, but I'm with your DM. Killing this guy was not necessary to protect the girl. Insofar as you had a good purpose, it would have been served just as well by arresting the guy and handing him over for lawful punishment. You killed a man unnecessarily (which is therefore not Good)...

Indeed. It also depends on how vehemently they insist that any flaws their country and society ever had must never be mentioned. Just in case anyone thinks I am taking a shot at the US, I'll mention that when my father joined the [honorary] staff of the local hospital here in 1949, on his...

Should the beer do what in the cellar? 'Lie', perhaps?

I think automatd translation tools still have a way to go. "Beer ago. Beer ago, or I case over -- yuche! Beer ago. Beer ago. Or I case over. Is the beer to be situated in the Kellar, and me here the faint wars? Beer ago. Beer ago, or I case over."