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I think the two sides of this coin are closer in actual play than either realize. The sticking point is the level of perceived support/exclusion from the system. People want the system itself to validate their preference and suppress what they don't like, instead of dealing with it at the table.

My main point was that 3E was a bigger tent than 5E. I'll certainly concede 3E being the high point of D&D is a much weaker argument compared to 1982, though I still believe it's true. On a side note, you mention fragmentation during the 3E era. While you have a point there, that fragmentation...

That was the height of the D&D fad, which in my opinion was an outlier. AD&D really didn't compare to 3E after things calmed down. As for 1975, there wasn't any competition yet. 3E was what it was in an era where strong competition existed, overwhelmingly established itself as the D&D almost...

Cops and Robbers was ok when I was a kid, but then I grew up and now I'd rather play Grand Theft Auto 5.

I'm going to answer the first quote in my response to Tony. I don't know about that Tony, there has been a lot of hostility in this thread. Hostility towards taking a 3E or 4E approach to playing 5E, and hostility towards any sort of criticism of 5E. Maybe not the level of hostility of the 4E...

It's a matter of taste. I like a challenge, but not too much. I play D&D to fight stuff, and fighting being so dangerous it's the wrong option kind of goes against what I want out of D&D. I'm also firmly in the combat as sport camp.

Haven't read through this thread, but I have to imagine Shonen anime and jrpgs from the SNES generation to the present have had something to do with it.

As you say, it depends on the situation. Organized play tends to be easy and predictable, as do a lot of home games. Looking at the 5E system, both the mechanics and how the system is presented in the books, I would say you would have to go out of your way and specifically pursue the level of...

The most dramatic example I have from 4E was one instance where my players defeated a level 14 and a level 16 encounter consecutively at level 8, after I had grabbed the wrong RPGA adventure by mistake. After the second encounter we all asked why this was so hard and it was at that point we...

I just got done reading all the optimization guides for each class, and I'd say 80-90% of the time they recommended getting your main stat to 20 first. If you really want a feat, the guides recommend going variant human and getting the feat for free at level 1 while getting your stat to 20 by...

A lot of people tend to make the mistake of assuming that "matches my preferences best" equals "biggest tent".

The results are a bit less dramatic than they would be in 3E or to a lesser extent 4E. Multiclassing has some flavor issues(yes, that does matter, and it was arguably worse in 3E), and in terms of practical optimization there are more issues than theoretical optimization. In practical...

In 4E and high level optimized 3E, it was difficult for a DM to generate running away scenarios in the first place. 4E PCs has an annoying and astonishing ability to win fights they shouldn't win. It might take every resource and healing surge the party had, but a 4E party could win an encounter...

The thing for me for 5E is that I can't count on the DM. If I'm in a situation where we're playing a home game where we're cooperating to make things enjoyable for everyone, it won't be a 5E game. There are enough players in my area that I don't have to play 5E if I don't want to. This being...

A 5E character has far less of these abilities than a 4E or 3E character. The problem for 5E is a matter of degree. Permission mostly applies to concrete "X happens" abilities, powers and spells. For skill checks, it does come down to probability, but that probability is far less transparent...

Not necessarily success being determined in advance, but the resolution being determined in advance and known to the player in advance. I can do most anything in 5E, but the resolution isn't likely to be specified in advance and/or known to me.

It's not about having to ask permission, but the lack of having permission in advance.

You're looking at it wrong. The main point isn't about obscure ambiguous exploits, but the abilities themselves. The important part of your example is the Polearm Master feat giving the opportunity attack itself, not exploiting some rules glitch with it. To me, an ideal system would grant a...

It bears saying that two of the major cornerstones in terms of DM advice given in the 4E DMG are "just say yes" and "fail forward". Between those and player expectations, there was a barrier against the DM making negative rulings.

That is because you're asking the wrong question. The issue isn't "can I do this?", but instead "I can do this!". Specifically, the lack of "I can do this!" in 5E. As pemerton said above, some of that is due to the lack of system transparency in 5E. In 3E and 4E the resolution system and DCs...