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I mean not really, its always been like this. If a player doesnt like how the DM runs it? Leave. If ALL the players dont like how the DM runs it? Leave. If the DM doesnt like how a player behaves? Remove them. If the DM doesnt like how all the players behave? Form a new group.

Well you generally have the adult in the room as the DM.

Because collaborating with someone who has final authority teaches a different lesson. A lack of GM likely just results in whoever is the most vocal, imposing, or extroverted, taking control. /shrug

I doubt it, as I doubt its impacted society at all. (I doubt D&D has really impacted society directly either, but I can tell you that a collaborative system where DM/Players work together teach's rules, respect for others, and cooperativeness, is going to be a net benefit on society.)

An increasingly selfish society that cannot work towards the common good by interacting with each other in good faith?

-- I'm always dismayed that people do not understand how reality, society, systems, work. Just wild.

I mean that is how social contracts work. The 'game' gives the DM the ability to do whatever. Player acting a fool? "A bolt of lightning from a clear sky comes down, you have no reaction, and take 2d100 damage". Rules are suggestions, and without the social contract and playing in good faith...

They do not seem to be in growth mode, if that makes sense. If viable is 'as good or better then the next biggest offering' then I guess they would be fine.

I'm not suggesting that violence has its roots in only those things. Violence has existed as long as a being has desired something that another being has. Why do we have these strong ties to violence in heroic fiction? Because our myths and stories grew from the same soil as our history and its...

Without Magic, I doubt Wizards even continues to exist as a viable entity, it likely would have shuttered with 4e.

Totally fair. For me Shadowdark just does Sword and Sorcery so well, that I can just build what I want (Barbarian, whatever) and boom, done. I am looking at this SD/DH/D&D game as that superhero fantasy, but with enough of a grounding to give that mythical zero to hero vibe. Just the typical...

Sure, but that is the foundation. You can look at a whole bunch of other things that also contribute, but the root of it is the root of it. Wargame, Western, Manifest Destiny, there's quite a lot of that in D&D, and that is the root. I'm not going to argue that it isnt, and yes if we have that...

Yeah I think some of that abstraction is what I want back and some of the more interpersonal stuff I can do without. Maybe I just love the 2d12 and hope/fear and how it drives the flow. Hooking that into the Torch Timer is just inspired.

100%

Yeah, I'm mostly looking at what the majority of us would say is that foundation, D&D.

Yeah I get it. The foundation is the American myth of the Western.

So I dont think we are too far off, at least not fatally, other than this. Its likely since I just havent had exposure to this before, but how hope/fear guides the flow of the game, I really love. I am going to call it Glory and Strife, but otherwise, it just really resonated with me.

This is really great btw.

I do think that this is something that will continue to be explored and thought about. There are reams of text around the evils of various things to the point they cannot be mentioned apparently in certain RPGs, but yet the whole system revolves around violence at a pretty fundamental level...

How far apart are we @overgeeked