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Okay, but this was a more complex situation than a single "give me better prices!"-persuasion-roll. So such examples are useful to see when to change the mode of play. So, let's go a little more complex - let's see ... in my current campaign we had a discussion about rewards with the local...

Okay, let's concentrate back on the Social Pillar of the game and not the Ressource Attrition Combat Strategic game play :). I think what this discussion needs are more concrete examples of actual play. So let's take my game from last sunday. There was a social challenge: RETIRED PIRATE...

I would adjudicate it the follwing: You wanna swing around the chandelier? Okay, give me an dex (acrobatics) check to see how well you do. With a ... 10+ you gain advantage, with a 15+ a hit will count as critical. With a 5 to 9 you gain disadvantage on the attack and with a 4 or less you will...

I'm all in favor of DM facing systems that help the DM.keeping track of more complex social encounters/situations. But they shouldn't be player facing. There shouldn't be a social initiative or a list of 10 actions to take or such things - the characters need to react as characters to the...

But the rules of these social situations are informed by the ingame world and are different for each situation. A trial follows different rules than a courtly intrigue, than an audience by the king, than convincing the mob to not kill the supposed witch. You can't just have a complex one fit...

Oh please don't. Whenever you give players a list of options, they will default to those options. That kills every creativity and thinking in character. There is already the problem that players see their skill list as Buttons they can press instead of thinking what their character would do...

Okay, that is totally fine. But that barley counts as an additional mechanic, to me. Like, it is a formalised way to make NPCs a little bit deeper. There is a big difference from this and the social combat others talk about.

Okay, that is fair. But I have never seen or played in a game where the DM didn't use skill checks social encounters. But you are right, RAW can be both: total free form or how I explained it.

But how do they look like? So far the 2e Pathfinder rules posted here I find quite overwhelming. But I would love to see mechanics that improve the social pillar.

Combat mechanics in 5e help organise a Chaotic, fast paced, abstracted situation so that players and the DM can makr informed decisions. Having an initiative round and a reduced set of actions (action, bonus action, reaction, movement, free action) turns a Chaotic system into order and makes it...

But that is just an extension of the 5e System. Instead of one skill check you make several. That is still RAW and I would think most experienced DM would not reduce such important discussions to on skill check. But social combat ... like ... Speaking to each other is the most natural thing...

The example is the landlord, who's socal statblock is longer than than the commoner statblock. And I would have to create that from scratch for every NPC that is at least as important as a Landlord ... that feels like a lot of work. Especially that the failure/win states are for a specific case...

I mean, what is 5e RAW? The players play out or describe an approach of their character ("I want a lower price" or "My character tries to ask for a discount by being nice"), the DM decides if there is a chance of failure or success, if there is, he let's the player make a Charisma...

uff, as a DM I already feel overwhelmed reading the rules. so first I would need to create a special stat block for an NPC, then there would be rounds (where I feel the example round time is extremely long - 45 minutes to discuss the rent with your landlord?) and then Characters can make one...

At this point so car it seems to me that most people who want social mechanics don't have trust in their DM or very bad experiences with their DMs.

So I'm more in the camp of "not more rules" for the social pillar of the game. But can somebody give me concrete examples of more rules for the social pillar? How do those mechanics would look like and how do they change (and improve) the gameplay? Because right now I can't think off any one...

I find that a bit complicated. But the problems with CR are plentiful. I build a huge Excel-Sheet myself trying to figure out and reverse engineer the CR system, so I could recalculate CRs to 1 Monster vs 1 Player like we had in 4e ... So my Endgoal would be to assign a Monster like 4...

I think the biggest problem is, that People forget that D&D is a magical setting which offers different solutions to real world problems. Every (arcane) caster has literally a gun at their fingertips with firebolt or Eldritch Blast, so a logical implementation would be thenatically more like...