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A question thats been bothering me a little. Why all the drama? Yes, someone made a new edition of some fantasy roleplaying game. No, it may not have been all what you hoped it would be. And importantly, No, it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to dislike the new edition and play something else...

And i disliked that it meant combats could be over in one or two rounds if you were lucky/unlucky. Both as a gm and as a player. As a gm i would be sorely disapointed to see all my careful planning of an encounter wasted by a few dice rolls, regardless of wether it was me doing a tpk or the...

"Unhallowed Metropolis" is another victorian steampunk game. Its very cthulhu-esque, with a world overrun by the undead. The setting is kind of futuristic neo-victorian. Socially and culturally it is aprox. 1850. And its been like that the last 200-300 years except for the world moving ever...

Actually i think you could argue that describing HP as something abstract started way back in the days of 1e. Is that 20 years or so to come up with good mechanics to support this? I say its about due. That they kept a few "sacred cow" naming conventions is fine.

eh? Why would you want to sacrifice playability for anything? Is it a "no pain, no gain" thing? I seriously don't understand this as, for me at least, its a game and anything that makes it run faster, play smoother and be more gm friendly is a good thing. Secondary concerns are considerations...

Not really the entire truth here is it? Disarm is gone, correct, unless a GM allows it with the stunt mechanic as explained in the dmg. Grapple is in, but simplified. Trip is in, but mostly done with specific powers or the stunt mechanic. But these three mechanics won't be the basis for...

Much better and informative than the short list. This is actually helpful for me (generally a 4e positivist), trying to understand the 4e hate. Which should be the real point of this thread, rather than 4e haters patting each others backs. imo. also. It seemed i made a few factual errors as...

My own (short) list and a few comments. The marketing of 4e: WoTC has been very open in pointing out what they perceived as flaws in earlier editions. This ofcourse alienated and upset people who saw these as not bugs but features. Good examples are alignment, Great Wheel cosmology...

Your post was actually a lot more helpful than a short list of "things i dislike". It doesn't have to be a ten page essay on the merits of a particular Feat in 3e as opposed to its 4e equivalent. But a few thoughts as to WHY one dislikes a particular thing in 4e is alot better than just a...

A list of things people dislike is interesting enough, but i'd very much like to hear some of the well reasoned and thougtout arguments as well. Some of the points on the lists seem to me to be mostly personal taste and bitterness. ie. (i think i mostly quoted Hawken for this) invisibility...

I suspect that you aren't the only one annoyed that the 4e phb contains races/classes/feats/powers etc. that aren't purely tolkienesque, sword'n'sorcery stuff. But being annoyed that you now have more material than you know what to do with is possibly a little irrational. imo and all that...

Strongly considering sigging this :)

I think it might be a level-dependent problem. A flying invisble level 1 pc can ruin a lot of possible plots and stories, that could be interesting challenges for a new hero. At level 16, crossing a chasm isn't really that interesting a challenge anymore (storywise), so fly becomes available...

we haven't seen a 4e level 5 or 6 pc yet (i think?), but i am pretty sure that one of the objectives with 4e was to disempower spellcasters a bit, bringing them on par with melee folk. At least when it comes to the number of choices, during and out of combat. Clerics, wizards, druids and other...

wellll... having this discussion ONCE (or twice) is a good thing i guess:) It is perfectly reasonable to expect pc creation rules to match NPC creation rules. But 3e showed us, the hard way, that this doesn't equal an easy or fast method for generating NPC's. 4e presents a (certainly faster...

Two things. First and most importantly, i apologize to Derren, i shouldn't have started the namecalling. Sorry. No excuses really, i should be able to get my message across in a better fashion. and instead to clarify my view a little on what we actually were discussing (i think)... I know we...

And no. i'm not trying to boost my post count. sorry:(

triple post...

triple post

why i changed it to half-truth instead of lie. we don't know how most npc's will be statted up. and we certainly don't know that there won't be rules or guidelines for it.