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Clerics need to spend 4 feats to wear full plate and heavy shields. that HAS to be a mistake.

Well, the question of "4E - Well, the question of when it's going to be pirated is now a matter for history books" is also a matter for the history books. its been out for a few days.

I think the cler needs to pick either str or wis and max it, then pick powers accordingly. thats not a good way to go for a campaign though, would narrow too many options. looks like clers need a decent score in both.

So now that we know a lot more options, what would you do to optimize the pregens?

are pdfs books?

yeah, i caught that one on second passing. it feels imbalanced compared to the other ones. personally i am really upset that clerics need to spend 2 feats to get full plate, and 2 more to get heavy shield. weak. but it makes sense, like they said clers are no longer better at being...

Theres an awesome channel divinity which is an AOE damage vs. undead. Close burst 1 at heroic, 3 at paragon, 5 at epic. 1d12 damage at 1 2d12 at 5 all the way to 6d12 at 25. I dont know how they thought that balanced vs. +2 to attack vs. large or larger creatures for 2 turns. Do you mean...

the +2 is only to skills which arent trained, the +3 is to a trained skill. or you can spend +5 on a single untrained skill to train it.

Overall, a lot of the feats seem to have prerequisites (racial, stat,class and a new one: tier) which is a bummer. For the most part they make sense, (like str15 + con15 for full plate) but I feel the choices are narrowed down a lot. That said, the feats seem very much driven by the 4 roles...

If i spent an additional 40 dollars to support my local store, sure it would help them stay in business and I approve of that. But i wont. if my 40 dollars were the make or break i would. But it wont be. magic and other CCGs are where their profits lie these days.

If i spent an additional 40 dollars to support my local store, sure it would help them stay in business and I approve of that. But i wont. if my 40 dollars were the make or break i would. But it wont be. Editing out political reference --Dinkeldog/Moderator

DSR is right. just because a level 1 daily isnt a win button, doesnt make it less awesome. the enemies that do get nailed by sleep will be hacked to bits by the party. you also dont need initiative if youre far enough away. remember, wizards are about intellimagence. the whole party needs to...

you might be wrong there. Its up to the DM to keep money-related decisions relevant throughout the game. the PC should ALWAYS want more gold b/c he cant yet afford all the gear he wants. i see a death setting them back the purchase price of an on-level magic item. seems fair.

i think they raised it. when I started the thread it was 63 with shipping, now its showing up as 68. prolly an auto-reaction to sales going up so much so dramatically. Player's Handbook I: A 4th Edition Core Rulebook (Dungeons & Dragons) Today's Rank: 2 Yesterday's Rank: 2636

seems like buy.com is already sending em out. its almost the same price. think its worth a shot?

what store?

how about both?

Ok so there were some STR based things I thought were wis based. Thanks for pointing that out. As to wis vs reflex: it is nice that reflex is usually lower than AC and it makes the lower +attack ok. but my point wasnt that they couldnt hit very often, it was that they need a wis based attack...

yes more, see below exactly my point- both of the effects you mention are from the "hit" effect of cleric spells. that is, even buffs rely on wisdom now, not just "offensive" cleric spells. Yeah, this has been my experience too. I think they tried to make clerics more interesting with 2...

how do you prompt new players to realize they can use skills?