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Joshua, I feel his...and your lack of truely adressing the issue stems from the difference of ideologies rather than anything that could be considered a concrete argument. I feel a bit empty here in this debate soley because I really haven't taken a hard side yet. I have been absolutely...

Oh dear. Celebrim. After reading your post, I have come to the conclusion that neither of you are all that clear on the difference. Your last post seems to indicate that all phantasy must contain allegory...or allegorical characters to be precise. That is a very slippery slope to defend. A...

To be fair, Celebrim, I think Joshua is confusing symbolism and allegory...a VERY common mistake.

Good point. I'm just happy they're working.

Hey! Quit pokin' fun at my wordage! I don't make fun of the way you people spell 'colour'! All of these poor, poor, 'u's put out of work at such a young age. Damn economy!

I think you've successfully defined the difference between a novel and an Epic. Direct (physical) conflict is never manditory in a moral tale. Edit: I think we can safely say that Moby Dick was more interested in Man while Gulliver's Travels was more interested in Morality. It is just a...

Hmmm, I could see it being more precise...but narrower? I'm not sure I can see that. (Perhaps, that's what you meant...sorry.) edit

No...just phantasy...I'm not sure why. Lol.

It's just that Epic can't be separated from morality without it losing meaning. Like I said, I'm probably missing something important.

I'm a Cunuckian...with a traditional bent.

Celebrim, I’ve been following this thread for a while now and I’m still a bit puzzled as to how and why you wish to equate phantasy with morality. Now, I can see a connection with a large section of phantasy that solidifies the polarity of morality. Meaning, there are obvious ‘evils’ and...

So that you know which books go under which sign when you are stocking shelves at the local bookstore. :)

I wouldn't have said anything if I thought it was a spelling mistake. Sorry, I guess it was pretty rude...I hate when others do that to me...I'll stop. No more corrections. :)

But, the introduction of plastic to those realms might be considered satirical. p.s. 'genera' is a plural form :)

Congratulations!! It's very important to be viciously discriminate of your own work. But, don't let it blind you and don't let it stop you from writing. Continue to plow ahead with your writing--just edit with a more advanced understanding. Don't let yourself becomed trapped, like so many...

Come on now...nobody is meaning to insult anybody else here...lets not be reduced to bickering or, even worse, insulting commentary. edit: Besides, I'd be more insulted by 'validity' then 'veracity'. One challenges the truth of a statement while the other challenges the source and...

Yes, that is the exact opposite of my experiences.

Give me enough kobolds and I could kill any epic character.

Yep. edit: And to be fair, there are cross genre compostions, genre bending fiction, and even satirical works examining genre. So, most of this literary classification is really quite irrelevant--to most people.

Many (perhaps even most?) post-apocalyptic settings are phantasy. The difference emerges from the application and ideology of the characters concerning the past and present coupled with the setting's realm of imagination and/or (fictional)reality. Science Fiction post-apocalyptic settings...