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BryonD, sorry, you lost me. I guess I need to take another look at my Trailblazer PDF but I can only recall TB acknowledging the math-reliance-on-magic-items. Does it actually address how to minimize magic item reliance as well? Guess I have my reading assignment for the weekend. :)

From the title it should be clear: I HAAAAAAATE the Christmas Tree effect. I recognize it’s part of the game’s heritage and I like a cool magic item as much as the next guy. People love to hold up the One Ring, Sting, Elric’s Sword, and other examples from fiction as justification for their...

True. However, at some point Brand & System become synonymous with one another. Also, I addressed the mechanical reasons for "yes, it's its own system" upthread. There's no more reason a RPG built on an open-source initiative has to scrap everything and start over to establish itself as its...

This is similar to my experience as well. I introduced my children to role-playing games some months ago. While they are familiar with the D&D brand from the old D&D cartoon, when they want to game it's "Can we play Pathfinder" and when they're telling their friends about it, the Pathfinder...

One more thought regarding my "mechanically compatible yet now it's own game" post. Henry's comment of "standing on the shoulders of giants" made me think of this. The compatability of PF with earlier 3.x material is a virtue, not a flaw, nor does it indicate that the PFRPG can't be/isn't...

If you look solely at game mechanics compatability, I'd side with you. In fact, I think it's probably more than a year. However, I think the need or desire to import 3.5 material diminishes with each PF RPG & PF-compatible release. However, I agree with your friend that as a RPG, the release...

Hopefully, the examples in my last post show the distinctions I'm drawing. To address my view specifically rather than the questions in general: If someone who hasn't played a game is seeking feedback (be it a pro- or con- thread), I'll weigh in if I've played the game. I like to talk about a...

Your guesses are incorrect. The distinction I am drawing is between someone asking: A. "Why play Game X?" (i.e. Someone is asking for feedback about what other players find appealing about the game." vs. B."You no longer play Game X. What would make you come back to Game X?" (i.e. Someone...

Ok, since I don't play 4e if it's that susceptible/open to change I'll take your word for it. However, you appear to be talking about more than your typical rules expansions. For the changes to be so significant to bring back "those who left" at this point, you'd almost have to be talking...

You're THAT offended? REALLY?!? It WAS a while a go but I don't recall the "swingy" argument being limited solely to save vs. die. In any case, I clearly stated I had no issue with the concept of the product (can't really speak to the implmentation at this stage yet), just that I found the...

This made me smile. In 4e design philosophy, I thought too much unpredictability was bad; it made things "swingy". Now it's a feature. :) FWIW, I've got no issue with the concept. Just found it a bit ironic. Game on.

BS. I hate the FR, having abandoned it for the reasons I listed above but I like D&D/PF & other fantasy RPGs. While I like D&D as a RPG, I felt 2e & 3e embraced High Fantasy as a default power level making it more difficult to run a traditional swords-n-sorcery or pulp fantasy style game. I...

Agreed. If 5e was on the near-term horizon (and I don't think it is unless I missed an announcement somewhere), trying to influence the direction of the game or the publisher would be completely understandable. I tried it with WotC/4e (lost) and Paizo/PF (won). Once the decision was made and...

I reject the conceit that 90% of the game world is 1st level. Basically, your average human between 20-40 years in age is 2nd or 3rd level. NPCs that have dangerous careers can be even higher in level. 1st - The NPCs The usual conceit is that NPCs must be low level or they'll overshadow the...

When the original gray box was released, I was an early FR adopter. The setting appealed to me in that in provided a more "zoomed in" view that Greyhawk and a rich history. What sealed the deal were the early Gazetteer releases that provided greater detail on individual regions. Even though...

Some interesting observations, here. I'm kind of surprised 5e wishful thinking might already be driving a lot of the discussion. I generally view edition changes as a pain in the ass. Apparently I'm in the minority, but I also don't give a fig about the D&D brand. It's rpg experience of...

Thanks for the reply & example. That's the kind of thing I was trying to learn. Looking to other systems for ideas or subsystems, etc. I can understand and have certainly done myself. The desire to recruit "lost players" is what I was puzzling over. Recruiting at an Edition Change...

1st sentence: Agree. Didn't view them as Edition War fodder. 2nd sentence: Immaterial to this thread (at least as I see it). 3rd sentence: Granted that question may be legit, but why would a 4e fan care? If someone's left a RPG behind, chances are pretty good that the changes that'd bring...

Thanks, Dausuul. This is the kind of info I was seeking. I tried to give you xp, to no avail.

If someone asks "What could WotC do to win you back?" or "what changes to 4e would bring you back", how is that not trying to bring someone back into 'the D&D fold'. (Conversely, "What PF changes would get you to try it?" is the same idea.) People absolutely are trying to recruit or sway when...