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Eldorian. I just noticed you posted again. I must have overlooked it as you didn't post anything new. :) Word of advice. If you're trying to make some kind of point (which still seems completely unrelated to anything I originally posted), repeating yourself is usually self-defeating.

Anubis. Your idea of PLAYTESTING does not inspire me with confidence. ----- Upper_Krust. Personally, I like the use of 1/3 increments (the 8-11 goblins scenario against a 1st level party). The actual playtesting I have done seems to support those numbers. That said, I'm pretty sure the...

Eldorian. Four goblins swarm fight a single opponent in a party of four? Let them. The rest of the party will flank and trounce the goblins in one round. I thought you said your tactics for playing goblins were intelligent? I prefer to play goblins with a something of a survival instinct, you...

Eldorian. Read the first line of the goblin description. I'm not the only humanoid who thinks so. :D So far the only thing you've been good at is repeating me. I just finished saying as much. I play goblins as little more than a nuisance in small numbers (I.E four of them), and as a force to...

Howdy Upper_Krust. But I am also saying that measuring CR within a single point does not accurately represent those challenges for lower level characters. You almost have to rate them with 1/2 points. Halleluiah! I think the opponent numbers are too great. What about 1/3 increments instead of...

Eldorian. I don't remember you saying as much. Anubis just said as much (but I see below that he reneged on that already). To me it sounded like Upper_Krust was saying they were EL3 (period). I see Upper_Krust has made the same point you did. I'll let this reply stand for all. Nope. Standard...

When Anubis is left twisting in his own self-induced froth, its a sure sign that you must be on the right track. :cool: ----- Upper_Krust. A party of 4 goblins is a EL 4 encounter. By your own system, CR 0 = EL 0; 4 opponents = +4 EL. Therefore 4 goblins = EL 4 (not EL 3 as you claim). Why...

Howdy Upper_Krust. *Waves to other posters, lurkers, gods, and wannabe gods in attendance.* Let us begin... What the heck? At no point, including our MSN chats, did I say that the WotC XP progression was too fast. I said your system was too fast at lower levels. That is all. This simply isn't...

Indeed it is. My mistake. Try as I might to redeem your CR system at lower levels, it was clearly impossible. Your system rates goblins at CR 0.20 (CR 1/2). Meaning that a party of four 1st level PCs will get 225 XP each (300% of the printed values) for the defeat of four typical goblins. That's...

If anything, my estimate of CR 1/8 was generous then; CR 1/2 is even worse. Well then, as this system purports to be accurate, let's hold it accountable. +0.6 for warrior class. +0.1 for NPC wealth –0.75 for small class. If the goblin advances as class, then no racial ability bonus for...

There's nothing subjective about it. We want proportionate XP at *all* levels, without inflated XP at low-levels. We want *equally* measured advancement when awarding XP throughout a character's career. This isn't subjectivity. This is universalization.

Upper_Krust. You say it take 13.3R moderate encounters to reach level 1. Yes, I see how you arrived at that value (300 / 4 = 75; 1000 / 75 = 13.3R) but when the heck does that ever happen? Let's look at a typical goblin encounter. Goblins advance as character class. Rogue is favored. NPC...

Anubis. Your replies consist of quoting the rules verbatim. Rules that I think everybody are acquainted with at this point (including myself, who took the longest to understand them). You're not saying anything new, nor do your replies constitute any kind of argument. ----- Upper_Krust. More...

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you play it out with an example, complete with behind the scenes calculations?

Re: Re: Playtesting I'm sorry, but you do this repeatedly. Every time somebody presents evidence that your CR system might need fixing, your try to invalidate it by questing their dungeon mastering. You have got to realize that not everybody is going to dungeon master their campaigns the same...

Upper_Krust. demiurgeastaroth makes a good point about inflated XP. Too much XP is being doled out for both piddly lower-level and epic higher-level encounters. I think the problem starts in EL jump. 1 to 5 between CR 1 and 2 is too much, no matter how sacrosanct you consider your equations...

Here you miss the point originally by also embracing the current system. When you take four 1st-level player characters and four 1st level non-player characters, the player characters already have an advantage. This is reflected in their Challenge Ratings. The party of four 1st-level player...

Funny. You didn't actually say anything here, except to regurgitate how the system currently works ... without seemingly understanding why (hence your inability to objectively question it). No matter. Let's see if I can clear it up. First of all, a party of four 1st level characters are CR 1...

Upper_Krust Cheeky bugger. You actually suggested it was more consistent to *include* darkvision in the equation a few pages back. No matter, I forgive you. :p At any rate, if you're looking into it, that's wonderful. I would be more inclined to calculate Encounter Level by Number of...

I just ran the same calculations by adding darkvision CR +0.2 into the equations. The results look like this. 300 XP --> 600 XP --> 450 XP In this case, the results spike at 2nd level, rather than drop. Still not right. Which brings me back to my original conclusion. Player characters and...