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In this regard I agree that hving more player options does allow an orthogonal appoach to narrativism. I started worrying after I wrote it that indeed, champions with its ability to buy off disadvantages (stating that now this is not something I want my character to focus on, this enemy as...

That is true but is a very different scenario then the villain (or hero) actively levitating (or some similar action) the hero/villain and dropping them. I think his worry is that if falling is so dangerous then the most obvious tactic is to levitate (or some similar method) and drop the opponent.

I just didn't want you dissing on elephants

Though a higher level caster who can throw a fireball (maximize or whatever) that does enough to destroy stone in the area (does enough HP damage) You still have these issues. We know a fire hot enough to destroy stone that is spread in the area of a fireball is almost invariably going to kill...

That is a good way of looking at it. HP either need to be a story element or if they are real toughness you need to have much less of them (and maybe some type of action points) or visualize high-level characters as really super tough and mythic in character. OR just not care about the total...

On the other hand, elephants also can kill people very very easily (most dangerous animal at the zoo). It is not a simple question, this issue pops up most systems except ones like champions where there is supposed to be a disconnect between damage that can destroy a building but just stun a...

Hey Peryton, Sorry had to finish an article on the neurobiology of depression, which has paradoxically been depressing me as I hadn't finished it. :p As i mentioned before I really am interested in your theory but it was kind of breaking down for me when I looked at individual example that...

I would say rules to handle social conflicts (what people I think mistakenly confuse with roleplaying) are also evidence of this. I would add a third axis to the power though. System power (like the random wanderign prostitute tables and the NPC interaction tables from 1E)

This is my thoughts on the matter as well.

One thing that really has happened is that all classes have become fighters with slightly different special effects. This is probably for me where it emulates something like WoW the most. This is a bit of an over exaggeration but is not far from accurate. That is why the class names probably...

I think it depends. If you want D&D to be a more general Fantasy game, then yes it is a bad thing as it preassumes that combat is what is important and take choices away from players who dont want the game to be dominated by combat, or do not want all combats to basically follow the same...

Hopefully though the reverse is also true. If the players fail the social save or run out of argument points, the DM gets to choose what the players do. Not that it is DM dictating player choices per se, but that there is some benefit/loss that is adjudicated before the challenge happens...

Still thinking it through. I am having a hard time thinking that combat options are narrativist and not gamist even though they give the player more control. The parrying/dodge choices in RM I really dont see as narrativist at all, more of a mixture of sim/gam. My feeling is that narrativist...

I think the key is that the player invokes the character traits and not the GM so that it allows the player narrative control.

You can make that arguments though for most all the deadly things that happen to characters. Fireballs, lightning bolts, being impaled, head crushed by a giants club. HPs either has to be a measure of toughness and high level characters really are that tough. or they are abstract and are...

Hmmmm...i see where you are going. I like your analysis though I will need to think about it. My first thought is that many of your elements are really gamist designed rules that you are perceiving as narrativist, but instead of reacting in a critical manner I want to think through it with the...

This has always been my position. Otherwise the best spell is aways make them fall from great height spell (guess they kinda had that in reverse gravity).

Whoever brought the beer* and cheetos of course. *or other similarly popular drink

I in theory like lifepaths but it is a bit much crunch. Have you played Shadow of Yesterday. Right now it is my goto fantasy game. It is very gamist/nar. i read Bringing Down the Pain, and initially hated it as it was SO different. NOw I love it. It is nice as it lets the players decide...

I agree totally. HOw the game is presented can be very different than how the rules make the game playout. I think WhiteWolf had this problem. It presented itself as a modern horror game that was about losing your humanity to vampirism (narrativism), but it really played out as a vampire...