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There's a lot less bonus types in PF2, and a couple of the ones that remain are hard to get on-demand.

I think that's not actually assuming the "in-fiction" part there; its just a typical fictional convention for that kind of fiction, and that opponent is, if anything, presented as dangerous and going down that fast is a bit of a surprise (because most likely it doesn't represent anything...

There's some issues with "Let's go through the classes and pick out the things listed there. Then let's look at the skills and see what we actually want good there. Then the non-class feats and do the same. And then, if we're playing a spellcaster, go through the options there. Oh, and let's...

Yeah, Staffan's post a couple up shows why looking at similar problems will often have somewhat similar approaches (Payn's not wrong either, but I suspect even if the PF2e designers didn't overlap with the D&D4e designers some of those solutions would have arrived at not-dissimilar places).

And honestly, in PF2e, rogues can hold a front rank if they have to (so can an investigator far as that goes); there's not that much variance in AC, and they aren't so low on hit points its not doable. Its just far from optimal. I don't think that actually changes my position that there are...

That would fit my experience with other games where there's a lot of mechanical interplay among characters, but it also matters how frequently new tools in the toolkit become available; the more often then do, the more discussion you need to have about applying them.

inevitable, no. But when addressing some of the problems, they're not an illogical one, either.

You haven't noted me saying D&D is a good choice for simulation play. I didn't think so a half century ago when I cared a lot more about that.

Yeah, those are intrinsically sort of action-fees, and if people get focused entirely on the combat applications, its going to feel bad. And of course sometimes PF2e breaks out things into separate actions that probably should be rolled into one. Regrip may well be the poster child for the...

This is a big part of why I've given up on CRPGs.

Just a couple quick comments here (I thought your objections were legitimately constructed and held here for the most part, though I don't on the whole share them). 1. As I mentioned earlier, there are cases where the way certain action things in the action economy do, indeed, seem overly...

And to bring some of the PF2e discussion back to topic, this is to some extent the way you get the most out of it. This is very pronounced with some classes (the Redeemer subversion of Champion comes to mind) but applies to some degree with almost all of them.

And you'll note that's a situation that's, shall we say, a little abnormal, right? Having only one character who could hold a line at all is probably a pretty abnormal outlier, and oddly enough, nothing produces degenerate play (in the sense of doing things not typical for a game) like...

The difference is, even the best tricks aren't the best tricks all the time. You learn them because they're good a fair bit of the time. And because you're probably still at least capable when they aren't. An example is tripping. Tripping, if you focus on it, can be very useful fairly...

There's been an ongoing argument whether process simulation and genre simulation are even close to the same thing for quite some time.

If you've never seen a situation where the things Retreater describes are not optimal, someone is missing something at one end of the table or another. There's always going to be some tactics that work halfway reliably, but that's not the same thing. Poorly game balanced games do this sort of...

That was one of my points. That's a really bad tactic and in most cases is a case of people carrying over habits from PF1e or D&D 3e and assuming its still the best choice when its a tactic of last resort. With a sword and board fighter (which is one of the first characters I played) that's a...

Except, as I said, that mode of play when used without thought is not optimal. That's the point. The "swing, swing, swing" thing may have been the best choice in PF1e. Its not in 2e, and anyone who's doing it there is not thinking about it, and I don't feel a need to be complimentary to...

The problem is, even if you manage to get the horizontal options all theoretically even in value, the number of players who will see it that way isn't liable to be huge, and will probably resent being forced into just taking what the die roll gives them.

Most of those are sound as defaults, but show a low-energy/not-thought-through approach if done relentlessly. In particular, your #4 there is almost never a good use of the third action. And only a limited subset of characters should find #3 an automatic best case. I mean, I don't mean to be...