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Yeah, that one just adds an additional layer of insult to the problem.

Its mostly only pronounced in level-based games, because people are fixated on starting at 1st level. Point distribution games and others that don't deal with levels are much more likely to at least present a strong option toward initial heroic competence (and some of them even default toward it).

This is always the issue with simpler games: is the level of detail actually adequate for what you're trying to do with it? For many people in many situations the answer is "yes", but the idea its going to be so for everyone in all campaign types sometimes shows a certain tunnel-vision on the...

I think doubling-down is a little different in that it actually confronts a controversy by going "So? Yeah, I said it and if anything I think I understated it." The nonapology is more of "I'm going to do anything other than apologize what I said, but I don't want to take the hit for it." That...

That turns into a guessing game about how long or many continuing Charges you need on the multiform you need to make it useful (and whether the savings at that point seems enough to justify the cost). (unless someone tries to argue it only costs a charge to change, which is such a blatant scam...

I almost mentioned EABA earlier, but thought it was both older at this point and probably too obscure. Though how successfully they've done so can sometimes be debated.

But that you can easily separate the two in many cases these days.

Might be so, but its a common enough one that it doesn't stand out much.

Though that sort of thing also breeds the construct sometimes called the nonapology so people can try and have their cake and eat it too.

One of the reasons I try firmly to keep the phrase "I stand corrected" in my vocabulary.

Its really, really hard for some people. It just feels wrong if you can't step back a bit.

I have to point out that's at best a GM angle solution, however.

As I recall, it was a more general "No frameworks in Multiforms", and I suspect it was to avoid some degenerate point shaving shenanigans. There were already some pretty abusive Multiform setups as it is (ironically, one of which they featured in an example character).

There's no reason you can't use it for ones where the armor is individually relatively simple. Its just that there's some serious by the book objections to doing multipowers (which are used for the traditional multiple weapon systems). I'm not sure I've ever seen a power suit done for a PC...

Its an optional rule, and like I said, its pretty weaksauce (same for its power stunting system). My guess would be that Steve Long or whoever put them in did so reluctantly (which I can understand a little better with the Power Stunting; at some point you have to decide that its not going to...

Well, then I'd say my understanding at the time was just wrong (or I'm misremembering how it went). But yeah, the excess skill-splitting in some areas never did the system any favors when you were trying to fit a concept into a budget. Like most build systems, there's always at least the...

Even without spikes per se, just the routine flanges and such were going to do that with a good swing. Maces were almost always something a bit beyond just metal clubs.

I'm just saying I can't say I ever saw someone reduce the cost of a Multiform or a VPP just because they thought the player wouldn't use it much.

Back in the day the late Scott Bennie ran a competition between supers (both hero and villain) in one of his Gestalts campaigns that was pretty much a Bloodsport situation in that pretty much anyone who had the capacity (and was a melee combatant at least in part) was invited. This included my...

Tell people running Champions back in the day that. :)