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No, not exactly. I was surprised when I saw the reply from Fifth Element because I thought I was replying to you. I went back and made sure there wasn't a posting error, and re-read everything. You and him have many posts next to each other. His are constructive and rational. Yours are taking...

See, once again you are taking it out of context. I said you can add it to both sides because they do not care either way. Are you trying to get this thread shut down? Please be constructive, and stop being so manipulative and negative towards the people who are trying to share their...

I misread your post and thought Zurai had said it. You've been constructive through most of this. I apologize for my misunderstsanding :) No hard feelings.

Exactly. On the note of campaign settings. What if your game doesn't have wizard orders? Then what?

Why make it that hard? Why not just give examples in the core rules that show how to take Spell Shaper and turn it into Golden Wyvern Adept? Then each setting doesn't have to devote space to renaming, and instead just give those groups the appropiate feats. Why is my suggestion a subpar...

I meant alot of us. I did not mean to be all inclusive, but I do think that the majority do not want this change.

Again, attacking my point out of context. It is obvious that I don't mean everyone agrees with me. I am saying that the option that takes care of the most people's positions is the one that removes the fluff from the name and puts it in optionally is all. As for majority, read the poll again...

How so? Show me one circumstance before in the core material where a player's basic game mechanic abilities were named like this. We are talkin about a player chosen feat, not a DM approved magic item, spell, god, or any thing else dropped in by choice. This is a necessary feat too, one that...

Ok, I slip and leave otu not all of us want and you use it to attack me. You are purposely avoiding every valid point I am making and then taking one statement out of context to try and invalidate me or argue for teh sake of arguing. Please be more respectful and add constructively to this...

Exactly Cam. And everyone, this is the reason why they shouldn't do this to the game. The MAJORITY of us do not need it and at least HALF of us do not want it. They are adding in a hold our hand area of the game and in turn running the cooking of alot of chefs here.

Readapting basic fantasy concepts and opening up options for making characters is one thing. Those campaigns can still bar dwarves playing magic users. Being forced to bring in named orders, organizations, schools, guilds etc is a whole other. This is not the same thing. If I want wizards...

Its effect, allowing you to remove allies from the area of effects of your spells, is a generalized effect. GWA does not give you bonuses with the order or make you have a certain in game advantage with the title, it modifies your basic wizard abilties. The other orders probably all have these...

1) Your being extreme and purposely making things more difficult 2) Your ignoring all of our valid concerns, the heart of the matter is that this does make things less adaptable for creative DMS that don't play generic D&D. 3) Artwork does not force itself into my campaign like a game...

Cam gets it. This is not an as much as a you say to-ma-TO I say to-MA-to kinda thing guys. It is exactly like renaming the skills Round Table Horsemanship (ride), Cloaked in Darkness (stealth), Tongue of Serpents (bluff) or calling the six ability cores things like Thor's Stern Rightousness...

The difference is that previous elements (spells, gods, the planes, monsters) that is DM controlled. It is setting/ campaign dependant. DMs place those things and allow them. Elements tied into character creation and development (i.e. skills, feats, talents) are all player controlled elements...

To add to Byrons point, what happens when we have 10 fluff name feats, or 20 or 100...that sounds like a lot of fun.

Sunder destroys a plot item the DM needs. The fact that it is a PLOT item and not just a non-important one is the story hooks of that item or the need for that item to remove an obstacle in some form. Golden Wyvern Adept inserts a plot element into the DM's campaign. It brings a resource and...

Ok, I will shoot you an email when we get it :)

So, I am assuming that the effects of impliments are no moved fully into the schools. I took the liberty of editing these descriptions to illustrate my examples: So, here are the descriptions: Serpent Eye cabalists use powers of enchantment, beguiling, and ensnaring. The mages of the Iron...

The spells were pretty bad, but it is easier to deal with than these feats. a few wizard's names can either be changed or treated like long forgotten wizards from a past age. Worse case scenario is that the spells just aren't there, they can be ignore (not given to players through spell books)...