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So you haven't read RAW? And you are asserting that the subsystem widely acknowledged as basic at best, fatally flawed at worst is right? Oooohhkay. "Don't bother me with RAW folks. I don't care what anyone or anything else says. Regardless of your logic, references or even by the fact...

LMAO! Snap! We'll hit at quite close to the same time, from the look of things. With a little luck we'll both edge over one point at a time and be able to nail Githyanki! EDIT: Current XP 124

They aren't disconnected. They are entwined. It's kind of the point! A SC isn't a group check. That's something different and maybe you are mixing those mechanics up a bit? The kicker is this - that kind of skill challenge gets stale really fast. And a LOT of folks hate them. Just read...

Yeah. And because the checks are all related. And because the repercussion of too many failed checks has an impact on the storyline. It seems to me like he's also part of a very gamist group that enjoys the mechanic more than the story. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not what my...

Then you are limiting your experience of skill challenges and limiting their usefullness. It is definately a Skill Challenge by RAW, as defined within DMG2. Have you read that chapter? I really get the feeling you haven't, in which case you really should. It's an SC because there have to be...

Interesting thought process. Surprise attacks might qualify. Interestingly initiative also applies to "combat" where there are no opponents, only traps, etc. So initiative is certainly valid when there are options besides combat. In a combat focus "roll for initiative" only happens once...

I was very puzzle when I first read that 10 hours ago... Now I figure he had a run-in with someone who turned out to be a jerk :) PC - your post read really totallitarian the first time :D

Yeah I understood and appreciate that... And that you had learned that hard lesson :) I guess I wanted to highlight to others in this thread how that approach is one of the worst ways to implement SCs. And yes you certainly want to try a lot of things. You want to be coming up with a stream...

Rune, Kerranin, I strongly agree :)

You should bother because you have emotional buy-in. Because your DM has presented the scenario so that you want to succeed and use a number of resources to achieve that success. It's not all abotu skills mate. If a skill check doesn't have any buy-in from you you won't be proactive. If it...

That's quite an interesting idea and in some ways not that far off what I do in practice.... Although a bit more formalised I guess. The problem I find is that my players don't always want to describe what success actually means. Don't get me wrong they enjoy RPing and some of them are good in...

118xp now so starting to get near the Githyanki border... I'll keep a close eye on it and report back when I corss it :D

That's going to make for a horrible challenge. I'm trying to weave a story based on the player's actions. A well placed spell, a perfectly timed martial display, a particularly good application of a skill at the right moment, greasing the right palm at the right time. All these things are...

Not bad. I would generally adlib this after taking some preparatory steps. The entire exercise becomes driven by the PCs action. After I set the objectives, consequences and the opening scene (framing) I simply ask "What do you do?". Hhmm... Back in the day very little was written out for me...

LOL! The worst Challenge my current group ever played was the first one! It was also the only one where I told them it was a Challenge, the one where I "trained" them in how I run them and how to play them. I opened by saying something like this...OK this we are going to play through a 'skill...

Sounds like your DM doesn't really grok them! I'd call this bad implementation. The time my players had to prove the Paladin wasn't the murderer? The time they had to help the silver dragon get two of her eggs back? These were all interesting Challenges that played out with great joy around...

I mean challenges that follow Rules As Written, generally as presented in DMG, DMG2 and the Rules Compendium. My point was that folks take a very narrow view of what is presented in these and, as usual, the devil is in the details. In particular I like to draw attention to things like DMG86's...

I'd agree with that Mengu. The thing is, challenges by RAW are actually far more flexible and open-ended than most folks realise. It's as if they read DMG2 without really twigging to what that book is saying. One of the most common things I hear is people asking "can I let my players use...

First up - go read everything in DMG2 about SCs. Then read it again. Some of my thoughts and experiences on SCs.... IME the more the players are aware of skill challenges the worse they play. Don't flesh them out too much. Narrowing it down to specific skills and DCs will tend to railroad...

Me too, but I like dirty... "OOohh... That feels gooooodd, baby!" ;) *hand shoots up* But hey... At least I trawl the boards looking to give XP away too :D Viva le reverse logic! Yeah this whole thread gives me that :D LMAO!