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That's fine. And since I didn't come here to be insulted, I'm gonna hold you to that.

That's not actually an example Rechan, that's just spin. You just told me in your example that 4E is gonna reduce the number of players at the table, teach simple addition, and prevent you from losing dice. Oh, and apparently 4E is gonna teach my players to raise their hands when asked. That's...

I guess it just boils down to a difference of opinion. I never really found running an ogre Mage to be a gamestopper. And i'd like to see the new statblocks before I judge whether they're an improvement or not. This seem s like more of us just having to take the designer's at their word. If you...

I disagree. I think most "grognards" are gonna buy 4E whether they realize or admit it now or not. Actually, considering that the average age of D&D players is late 20s, more grognards will be buying the game than rookies will. Might as well keep your bases loaded.

Ok. I hear you. The thing is, I'm pretty sure they do have a completed product. If they were so inclined, and if their bosses allowed it, they could explain the mechanics of the game right now. Any playtesting that they're doing at this point is just a formality. The game is written. Not that...

Couldn't agree more. Both extremes are knid of baseless in my opinion. But I still don't think there's anything wrong with a little healthy skepticism.

Well Rechan, just between us, geek to geek, Rogue absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers. Not Marvel Girl's powers. :P But I get your point. For the record, I'm not convinced 4E is gonna suck. The thing of it is, the people who are saying how streamlined, and how great it is, and how much fun it's gonna...

Good Question. Definitely not. I might use them if I like them. But I won't consider them "core". I think the definition of core is going to be a lot more subjective in 4E.

That's true. I guess my point was that what's good for Hasbro's shareholders isn't automatically a good thing for me and my gaming group.

Hey man, of course I'd have different expectations. But they'd still be just that... expectations. I think what's bothering the OP (and to a lesser extent myself) is that in this analogy, the movie hasn't come out yet. And a lot of people are complaining that it hasn't gotten an Oscar award...

...for the corporations.

Of course I have. But my comments are usually along the lines of "I hope that turns out to be as cool as it looks." I'd like to think that I can tell the difference between a preview and an actual movie. There's a difference between saying "i hope 4E turns out to be as cool as/ better than...

Personally,even if I'm excited about the prospect of it, I've never talked about how good or bad a movie was before I've actually seen it.

No Frost Giants in the MM?! Intentionally leaving fan favorite monsters out of the monster manual? "Don't worry loyal fans, as a reward for supporting us, we'll give you the opportunity to buy more books than you originally intended to." It's the same marketing philosophy that caused them to...

I'm the only member of my group that exclusively uses a mac. But, I'm also the only member of my group with the ability & desire to DM a campaign. So, no DI for my D&D group. Not that I would have payed a monthly fee for what I consider to be a sub standard product. But still... it's the...

I hope it does turn out that way. Seat of your pants DMing can be pretty fun. If the next edition turns out to support that style of DMing more, it could only be for the good. I guess we'll see come next May.

I couldn't disagree more. If I had to pay a monthly fee so they could change the rules on me and my group every time they felt like it... Well, I just wouldn't do it. A move like that on WOTC's part would insure my group sticks with 3.5 until they came to their senses. For me, that would be like...

I hope they get rid of PrCs entirely. Those things really dim my enthusiasm for high level play. ...Well, that and the fact that the game stops working post 12th level.

And I'm saying: That's really not much to go on at all. I, personally, don't think anyone can really answer Merric's question until they have the new PHB in hand. So far, what I've heard isn't encouraging to me. But my general impressions might be wrong. And I'd hate to miss out on a good game...

I understand your question Merric. But any answer anyone can give would be idle speculation based on hype, meaningless buzz-words, and manipulative advertising.