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And now I see, it's one of those threads.

Monsters following the same rules as PC's, rendering the "i'll whip up a mechanically sound yet interesting monster in a few minutes" frustratingly difficult. Juggling a dozen bonus types from class, spells and items. Kill *that* with fire. The 'build' mentality which turned high-level 3e into...

*points to Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms* That.

If they could go ++essentials then I'd be thrilled. Having an 'advanced/player's-option' silo for the char-op types would be fine, but a core game that was simple, clean and playable without dozens of feats and synergy bonuses to manage would be perfection.

And if this is lost, then I'm out.

That seems to be a recurring theme in this thread, and I agree with it completely.

(4e. Assume I've used "page 42" DCs and damage expressions) Large creatures will use occasionally use PCs as weapons (when appropriate) PC pulled a sack over an Irontooth's head in order to blind him for a round, allowing another to pull a fallen PC away. Kobolds pushed into iron maidens...

I honestly think my next campaign will be B/E (or retroclone)---if only to recapture the 'landscape of the mind' feeling that I miss.

First encounter: 1979. Friend of a friend's house after school (mentioned upthread). One session only. Love at first sight. Second encounter - Play: 1982. Saw someone with a PHB on the school bus (7th grade). Played a D&D with him and others---hooked. This group formed the basis of friendships...

ಠ_ಠ

Eldritch Strike (feypact): Moonbolt Manifested as a shortbow of shimmering moonlight which sent silvery shafts of light at her enemies. Warlock's Curse (feypact): Oblivion Gaze When faced with an enemy, her elf eyes were replaced by those of her archfey patron's---cold and hungry. So hungry...

I remember many a time when the DM said something along the lines of ,"That is a very creative exploit you have discovered---for the sake of the game please forget you ever thought of it." (and now I am going to have very troubled nightmares about some of the horrors I saw on rec.games.frp.dnd)

Assuming you had such a power available, not much. But not everyone has a forced movement power available when they need it.

It's been a looong time, but I can't even remember what rule one would use to push someone over a cliff in 1e. Was it as codified as (to use 4e as an example) "use power to push/slide n squares" or "see page 42 for examples"?

After my first game I ran up to my parents and breathlessly explained, "I killed the monster with a spear! Nobody else could hit it but I ran up and stabbed it like *this* and the Dungeon Master said I killed it!" I was nine years old and I remember it like it was yesterday. So cool!

This happy. squee.jpg

1980 DM used a tape measure, meticulously tracking every inch. Also noted the arc of protection of every shield. Plus ça change.

I'd just like to say how happy this thread has made me.

Even I look back with embarrassment at 2e's elf fetishism.

There is something so wonderful about running level 30+ monsters---actual gods and demigods---who are completely playable right off their (half-page) stat-blocks. That's something I've *never* been able to do in D&D before.