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Greywulf: "Basically, if the opponents have roughly the same numbers just treat it as combat between one of each troop type. In other words, treat a battle between 100 commoners and 100 goblins as a battle between 1 commoner and 1 goblin. If there's an imbalance, then there's a combat scale to...

Q: "See, it's the "clear literary antecedants" part that I have a problem with. Vance is a bloody obscure source. TX7231 is trying to claim that no one in the 70's would have read Mary Stewart. Never mind that she was a New York Times best selling author and that her Arthur works have made it...

Charlesatan, "As to why Gygax decided mages shouldn't wear armor is up to him, but one reason why armor-touting wizards is so strange is because D&D made the stereotype of mages not wearing armor." Are you kidding? Could you please show me one illustration of a magician wearing armor and...

I think the point of contention here is not that 1E was archetypal, but that the 1E classes were somehow based on Jungian archetypes There are many systems other then Jung's, it was only 1 example I used. So pick which ever. Archetypes do exist in AD&D as do stereotypes, and types. And...

We did large battles the same as small, just devided by 10 or what have you. So say you had 20 henchmen, 6 PCs and 200 orc, 10 ogers, 20 bandits and 1 evil MU. We'd have each PC go, then most likely devide by 10, so role twice for 0 level henchmen, then twice for the bandits, and probably...

Charlesatan: "I think the argument was lost when you were arguing that 1E was archetypal and people didn't believe that." I think your right. Raven, I think you need to chill out. :)

Charlesatan: "I think what tx7321 wants to argue more about is simplicity. " Yes, thats it. 1E was simpler, with ready to use well defined roles (or jobs) to step into. BUT these roles still represent popular literary archetypes (and not just specific lit. characters). Yes, that is breaking...

I agree with Treebore, the randomness of treasure type lent itself to the unpredictable and chaotic nature of the game (the possibility of extremes). A party could grow rich very quickly. Yet the finding of such wealth was, to a degree, balanced by the deadly random monster tables that were...

As the originator of this thread, I'd hoped it wouldn't degrade into anything nasty (Ice :] ). ;) I realize alot of people don't like 1E artwork, and thats cool with me. I don't like the vast majority of "abstract art" yet others love it. That said, try to be a little more informative about...

Raven: "No, they don't. They represent a handful of obscure characters in books that weren't even that well known at the time. Saying "Cugel is an archetype" is just retconning the facts to match your predetermined outcome." Writers do consciously create characters to fit certain archetypes...

Like I said, few if any Americans (esp. not 11 year old kids) have even heard of those referrences. They are not part of the collective (as is Fantasia's wizard, or Gandalf in the Hobbit). Those are obscure sources and have almost no meaning to the majority of D&D players at the time...

HUSSAR: " see this is yet another, "D&D has moved away from its roots" sort of thread. The problem is, D&D in any incarnation, has always approached the genre in a kitchen sink way. Firearms have seen rules in Dragon, lazer guns and powered armor in modules, the classes are mish-mash of various...

Col, maybe we just have different taste. If anything I like the artwork of the early stuff even more now then I did back then. I agree BTW AD&D is not just midieval, it was its "own thing".

Raven: "In point of fact, AD&D was devoid of "personality mechanics" as part of the character creation process from a rules standpoint. " I never said personality was part of character creation. However there are behavioral constraints that prevent you from doing things you might want to do...

Wayne: "As a matter of fact, I do." Well thats fair enough. :)

Raven, first off, archetypes in AD&D do correspond to general archetypes outside of AD&D. From Wik: "From Wikipedia, An archetype is a generic, idealized model of a person, object or concept from which similar instances are derived, copied, patterned or emulated. In psychology, an archetype...

redrobedwizard: "Oh, you can still make judgment calls, but the way 3e is set up, you don't have to make judgment calls for things like Power Attack or Tumble. Less judgment calls *required* is a good thing. Feel free to make your own calls, just don't force them all on newbie DMs." I'm not...

Wayne: That's the nostalgia talking." No, its not nostalgia its taste...there is a difference. ;) Infact I like alot of new artwork just as much as the best of 1E, some even more (and it generates the same kind spirit). Unfor. the styles I do like don't appear in 3E or D20 artwork (but...

3E is a great game for what it is. But its biggest problem, and the reason I won't play it any longer (and alot of others won't as well) is its requirement of stacking. The feats and Skill systems require too much record keeping for the typical player (esp. once you reach around 4th and up)...

Dykst: "The problem is that the players I know feel like 1E is bush-league and clunky. They'd never play a previous edition again. Yeah, I've aksed on occasion." Here's an idea, use OSRIC, tell them its "something new" like C&C, like a faster D20 that uses tables instead. They'll quickly take...