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I think the "straight jacket" approach of AD&D to archetypes isn't everyone's cup of tea, but for those who like playing in that kind of setting it just can't be beat. It takes the preasure off "whats this world setting like, what are the backstories to these unusual folk...who are these 5 guys...

Moogle: "See, this is the core of what I *hate* about this gaming philosophy. Not only am I not interested in my GM's idea of reality (which may diverge considerably from my own), I'm not the least bit interested in playing in *reality* at all. When I'm playing a fantasy RPG, I'm interested in...

Shil: "I'm curious - what do you mean by "it just didn't work"?" Whoops! :confused: That should read "wouldn't" work. ;) I think there are infinite variations on the basic classical liturary archetypes (also cross cultural), and they all boil down to: child, mother, father, teacher...

Psion: "when I take a look around in my imagination, I DO very much see fighters in armor with big swords, spellcasters with staves, and lurking thieves." Well, thats good for you. But the last group I played 3E with (about 2 years ago) had a wizard in light armor with a huge great sword; a...

Psion, I guess I just like to picture a Tolkienish/Excalibur world where the fighters walk around in plate or chain and swing big swords, the MUs cast spells and carry staves, the thieves stay hidden as long as possible. If you "look around" in your imagination in 3E you see a very different...

Aaron: "Of course there's still an element of that in any roleplying game with a referee, but the "DM is god and the players are ants" analogy leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I'm not playing D&D to be totally subject to the DMs whims. " Just the same, that was always the DMs choice. Of...

Aaron wrote: "3e is the best of both worlds. It has the simplicity of readily available archetypal classes, plus the ability to make a character with more than one, and mix and match to get just the character you want." Well, I think thats where it comes down to a matter of taste. ;) It took...

Another thing to consider is the "look" of the game in your imagination. When your in a party of 5, say, and you have 2 MUs one dressed in traditional clothing and with traditional weapons, the other wearing armor and carrying a great sword, this throws off the theme of the setting (or at least...

Hussar: "And there's the problem right there. What you decide can be done in real life and what I decide can be done in real life can be entirely different. Thus, the players are pretty much beholden to whatever the DM decides is reasonable. Having had far too many rows in game over exactly this...

Sure Merric, but those are magical races, and multi-classing with magic only reinfoces that mythical spritely quality (they might fit the forever youthful Peter Pan Eternal Child archetype...infact that could explain level limits as well). AD&D is a human-centric game remember, so most players...

Crim: "I am quite aware of what "Homebrew" means and my statement is not illogical since I was merely pointing out an observed fact." Fair enough, and sorry if I came off harsh. ;) Rereading that thread...I can't really make much since of it myself. But it was clear P&P didn't want to put...

I wasn't considering "power" rather "purpose". Sure, there are multi class PCs in AD&D, but they are the oddballs not the norm. I'm sure AD&D 1Es creators (particularly Gygax) chose to stick with a set of strict archetypes...so why? I suspect it was to keep a certain continuity with...

Merric: "Can that even be done in 1e? Hide in Shadows only works if you don't move. Certainly you can Move Silently, but if you move into LoS, even if covered with shadows?" If it can be done in real life, then sure. Low brush to crawl behind, dark conditions (esp. if the party has messed up...

The 1E discussion has gotten me thinking about the importance of archetypes in FRPGs. I don't just mean AD&D but all FRPGs (even scifi). They seem to have been widdled downed and combined as flexibility has become all important. But is there a cost for loosing these strict devisions. These...

Psion wrote: "3e, however, takes the load off the DM" I never understood this notion, who says the DM carried a load with 1Es tables? I never heard a 1E DM complain about running a battle (even a huge one), but I've heard many 3E DMs complain about even attempting to run a medium sized battle...

What is the "fourth wall" ?

Hey, you know what makes for a great game, just sit down with your players with nothing in mind and see what kind of stuff they come up with; randomly role encounters for instance (maybe they start walking out into the wilderness or a random fight in a tavern leads to a big town adventure) And...

You know, maybe its DM burn-out thats the problem. When games start getting predictable or "stale" somehow, sometimes it helps to switch hats and see how someone else DMs for a while. Even original ideas have a kind of style...where they don't seem all that original anymore (because some...

Aha! Good to know. ;) Somehow I always missed that.

O: "whereas a character today is expected to have a unique and fully developed personality of their own and that the player will set aside his own personality and "immerse" in the character's personality during play. I would say that those two concepts of immersion are considerably different."...