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Ranes, its good to see 3.5 included that statement. I was talking about 3E (I don't have 3.5 so. :\ ) Perhaps such a statement exists someplace in 3E? Anyhow, there was a difference with 1E where house rules and official rules were frequently weaved together, and some official rules were...

RangerREG, good for you and your group, but what does that have to do with written rules. Imagine for a moment that 3E was your first experiance of an FRPG. How long would it have taken to figure out you all needed to agree the DM is the final say on the rules (whats used and how their...

#1 That is the situation we are in with 1E. We just let each other know the rules we are using before we start. For instance, I use 1E surpise (as BTB as possible) and don't usually use weapons speed, another DM in our group limits surprise to 1 seg, and always uses WSF, another doesn't use...

Its possible when I was first playing 3E it was so fresh everyone was expressing their mastery of the rules outloud which gave me this impression. Perhaps once all the rules were pointed out, and the DM fell in line with them, things would have settled down. We never go that far though...

Actually, I don't think its the skill system concept thats the problem, its the complexity of 3Es rules, and the "rule book is always right" mentality of its players quick to jump in and set things straight. This isn't really there fault however, but the writers who de-emphised the role of the...

Malhost, nice summary. Your correct, this breaks down quickly when all the players are also DMs. The exception, however, is when they all learned from the same guy. Pre-internet, this wasn't much of a problem. Today we talk about rules at the table way more then we did in the past. The...

My impression was that the MM was only to be used by players AFTER clearing it with their DM, mostly to read about their race (elf, half orc, halfling, gnome, dwarf), read about their horse, dog etc. and general "world knowledge" for instance our original DM allowed the ranger in the group to...

dcas: "I've never played in any campaign in which the GM was not questioned during the game. No matter what the rules." Me too. ;) However we keep it to just a little, and only when something odd comes up (since we share the same rules pretty much now; the idea is that the DM wants feedback...

In 1E and 3E we trained under a person(s) once eaps were hit. I've always seen in done this way, but on another thread I've found others never played this way.

Not literally. All that means is that the DM is not questioned once the game starts. As long as the players and the DM share the same basic understanding of the rules (ie staying consistant). If a DM is bad, you just don't use him for a DM again. But then I've never seen a DM miss-use his...

Methinks you're taking the assumptions of how your group plays and spreading them a bit too far again. As much as I like the idea in theory of training before leveling, I've very rarely played that way. __________________ Methinks not. ;) Seriously, I think it does mention someplace in the...

In 1E its assumed everyone learns to jump and dodge equally in their prospective "schools". In 3E there apparently is some special room where they send people that want to specialize in jumping or dodging with pits and swinging things. And after this special ninja training they have the edge...

Malhost, I went to 3E lock stock an barrel I assumed the standardization with saves presented in 3E were going to be far superior to 1Es crazy save tables. It just worked out though that it started to feel mechanical, too much like a game, too logical...to the point that it got boring, lost...

Having a player role petrification to get over one pit, and then their dex for another is just changing the players chance based on difficulty. Its not really any different then saying in one case you have a 30% chance with one pit (say firm ground 13 foot) and only a 20% chance with another...

Yeah, some guys don't appreciate it. I didn't but I do now (esp. after playing 3E). The best thing about 3E for me was that it showed me why 1E was designed the way it was. And I'm sure if you asked Gygax he could confirm this. BTW, when a player doesn't like an inconsistancy of mine (having...

"How do you jump in AD&D 1e?" Exactly. :D Outside of hitting and magic, there's alot of stuff left up in the air, and that (I think) was intentional. The DM has to figure this out, and thus you have a very fluid experiance. I think this adds to the "realism" of the game, as you have only a...

J-Dawg: "But hey--I can back off if you're not enjoying the discussion. I think comparing and contrasting the editions--in a friendly style--is kinda fun. " Me too. And I didn't feel any heat personally. :D I realized that to you it wasn't meant as an insult or anything. I only mentioned it...

jDawg: ""I've seen this very frequently from you--you make very extraordinary claims about what 1e and 1e alone can do, when in fact your claims are not all the remarkable" This just came off as an attack to me (perhaps I'm being paranoid). "very extraordinary claims" (sounds like I'm saying...

JDawg, I'm referring to AD&D. I mentioned Arneson out of respect, he's often forgotten as a co-creator of the D&D game, just pretend I didn't mention him. ;) As for tables slowing you guys down, didn't you memorize the most common results pretty quickly? And Pirate Cat, did you use a...

JDawg: "And yet again. That's the sign of a good 3e DM too. The difference being that without having to consult tables, it's actually easier to accomplish in 3e than it was in 1e." Checking the tables in 1E never slowed me down. Nor has it slowed down any DM I know of. Infact, it takes alot of...