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JDawg: "Back to the oversimplification and strawman. That description works just as well for 3e as it does for 1e, making it meaningless as a point of comparison." How so?

JDawg: "You're guilty of several logical fallacies all at the same time: " Jdawg, my friend, thats the most any of us can do in life, esp. when there are no records of this sort of thing. Q: "Arneson had nothing to do with the design of AD&D--", you must have never heard of OD&D then, the...

Eyebeam: " very much disagree. Just as the credit for 1e really rests on the shoulders of the people who made it work despite its flaws, the blame for 2e rests on the shoulders of people who didn't cooperate with the idea that optional rules were just that" As I recall, those that played 2E did...

Eyebeam, what variation existed between the vast majority of 1E players (ie house rules, or miss-interpretations of rules) only effected combat (who goes first, do you use surprise etc. etc.) or perhaps things like encumberance, movement, level limits, breaking through doors, damage done by...

Typically battles in our 3E games were so complicated enemy numbers were kept small, thus flanking almost never came up. Anyhow, like I said, it was an "image" kewl thing. Logic wasn't first on the mind of our players. 3E is very much about "looks" and "image" through customization (in 1E...

Q: "Again, this is totally YMMV. In my games, I've seen the full plate fighter FAR more than the dex monkey. Actually, I'll go so far as to say that in 6 years of playing 3e, I've yet to see a dex monkey fighter. Barbarian, yup. Fighter? Paly? Cleric? Nope. All wearing the heaviest armor they...

I was thinking about the actual rules and how they played out. But no, the artwork and layout is important too. Def. worth mentioning. I too hope they move away from the "modern" fantasy style we've seen and a return to something more classic looking. I am no fan of dungeon punk or its...

Its true, board games are different then FRPGs in the time investment required. Merric: "If it were merely a fad, there wouldn't be so many supplements overloading your senses, as the lifespan would be shorter. Wizards produce about 2 books a month, which while a lot from an AD&D perspective...

Merric, I don't see how 4E could be a fix for 3E, to merit a jump to 4 it will need to change more drastically. People will demand something fresh, even historically so. I can't see 4E getting more complex (as so many have pointed out, its not easy for everyone to understand 3E, and combat...

Aaron: "And how did it reduce the number of players but drastically increase sales? That is self contradictory and makes no sense." I don't have any hard numbers, no one does (no one did a survey back then). I can only speak for those I personally knew playing D&D. For the most part, people...

1E is God... :D Diaglo would disagree. Merric: "I know AD&D (1e) certainly had a time when it was the "hot new thing". Aaron and MerricB, certainly 1E was a new craze (it was the first wide spread FRPG afterall), and in that way a fad. However, when the game was first on the scene it was a...

I know this isn't going to reflect anything but wishful thinking. Whatever you suggest, keep it to something you think would have a chance. Me 1E of course. ;) ;)

A fad, as I understand it (with some marketing classes under my belt back in undergrad) was a product release that focused on fast sales, and one that changed often to remain novel. Fads tend to generate fast sales but drop off quickly, which are then replaced by a slightly different but...

Q: "I read a lot of posts here and elsewhere, and the general "edition war" boils down to 1e vs. 3e. Where's the second edition love?" Where indeed. :\ It just goes to show you, although it was assumed the switch to 2E by TSR (from 1E) was a good business decision (this switch actually...

I think you miss-understand me. When I talk about immersion and roleplay, I'm not talking about thespian actors goofing off at the table in some horrific fake Scottish accent. I'm talking about those involved using their imaginations, and feeling like your actually the character (seeing...

Thats true Bill. One thing another poster mentioned I think is very true, your game in 3E is as fast as your slowest (newbie-ist) players, in 1E its as fast as your DM. This may also be due to my not being as familiar with 3E. Every time I ran a big battle in 3E I was exhausted (in 1E it...

Num: "35 combatants and it takes but a few minutes? That's not the 1E I played. A fight with 20 zombies once took an hour in 1E because it was just the usual "roll-miss-roll-miss" routine. Not very engaging, either. It's faster than 3E, yes, but your exaggerations diminish your overall...

Fisher: "My experience playing AD&D in the 1980s was quite different. Almost everyone who owned a PHB owned a DMG. DMs were often questioned about the rules. Heck, arguing about the rules was part of the fun for my group. It is not the tables that make the difference here." I think some place...

I never said they were the same thing. :\ I said Gygax wanted to keep the rules (including combat determination) in the hands of the DM and out of the hands of the players. Why? repeating myself once again, so that the player could focus on immersion and role play. This is actually...

Fisher: "Besides the "he just didn't think of it" theory... Perhaps he felt the table communicated it better. Hobby gamers at the time were used to reading tables." So, why make a game that was supposed to be more accessable to the general public have a more complex system. Why not keep it...