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While I disagree with part of KarinsDad's conclusion, his rationale is spot-on. The purpose of Take 20 is to stop the endless spree of rerolls until you succeed, and that part of the problem with it is indeed the binary nature of the skill system. On one hand, the binary skill system is...

I allow PCs to bust out the equivalent of psionic revivify to heal someone who "died" within a few rounds, which is enough to bring back most PCs who die, but it's probably not enough if you find the king dead in his chambers the next morning. Death still matters for plot reasons, but PCs can...

These should be random, as they take place within the context of challenges in the game: * Weapon Damage Rolls * Spell Damage Rolls * To Hit Rolls * Skill/Ability Checks Saving throws should probably also be added in here, but as I suspect that they'll become defenses with the attacker rolling...

Very well-said.

I think I'm also being unclear here, RC. I don't mind hit points being a measure of attrition. That's explicitly what they're for, and even though I prefer using conditions to model health (M&M, True20 damage track, etc.), these are a de facto limit that I'm more than willing to accept, because...

A very fair response. However, do you believe that there will be zero attrition in the system the designers are talking about for 4e? Even M&M can have a degree of attrition if you choose to have it (very simply removing the Energizing extra on the Healing power, or not allowing it to heal...

EDIT: Question was answered before I posted. Post removed for relevancy

Overall, the question of whether per-encounter resources are at least as good as if not better than per-day resources for a D&D game. My thanks for the clarification. I believe that my earlier point that there is a difference between being "out of resources" and "being tired" is important...

I appologize. I did not intend to misrepresent your position. However, I must also still conclude that if your logical analysis does not include the reality of non-personal resources, then it isn't sufficient to resolve the question. That's not a problem. Would it be more accurate to say that...

No worries! :) Just trying to calm things down a little bit... discussions are always more fruitful when people are reasonable, and I'm earnestly interested in seeing where this one goes.

We are getting closer to the same page, RC. I'm not claiming that every single blade of grass need be statted or that absolute lock-step adherence to the words of any novelist are even desireable. What I am claiming is that the resource management system (magic specifically in this case), while...

My appologies. I was typing hastily. I was refering to the discussion I posted about "non-personal resources", like position, clout, favor, etc. which can be gained or lost as a result of an encounter when taken in context with the rest of the game world. This was my oversight in typing that...

First, please stop being so defensive, gizmo. I'm not asking you to go scrounge the library. I wasn't trying to shout "LOL you lose". I was trying to be encouraging. My appologies if I came off as otherwise: it wasn't my intent. And as for tracking fatigue...

I was told that non-expendible resources are irrelevant to this discussion. I was also told that my point that you can measure an encounter's significance by how your resources have dwindled by the end of it as "irrelevant". I hate to be nitpicky, but my arguments were handwaved away because of...

That would be fine. Now you've agreed that D&D's resource system does not serve to really represent fantasy fiction well. We're getting closer to being on the same page I'm not, the d20 system is. They're essential to track in both True20 and Mutants & Masterminds, and they really are...

I must take issue with the representation of fantasy novels / movies / fiction in general where the weary heroes need to rest as supportive of the per-day resource model. Heroes in D&D will nearly never rest because they are "tired": they will rest because their resources have been expended...

Ah, I see I was unclear then. What I meant by what you quoted was that it was silly and archaic for only rogues to be able to do it. It was like a magical sign that popped up to let you know that you couldn't achieve X because, even if you were sufficiently skilled, you didn't have enough...

While okay in theory, in practice this leads to problems. Spellcasters are at their best at the beginning of the day, as we all know, and outshine non-casters in this way after about level 5. But as you add more encounters, the non-casters start to outshine the casters. I don't mind at all there...

You misread my opening post, then. I was suggesting that the call for a removal of the per-day resource system is similar to calls from older gamers for the removal of things like feats and skills because they interfere with their playstyle, because both of them introduce new areas to explore...

I did create the promised thread.