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I agree. But the purpose of this thread is to determine where the line is drawn (and as importantly, who draws that line). I totally agree. But here's where the distinction breaks down. If the DM decides something happens in the game world, and he decides that event could come to the...

Of course that assumes the paradigm that discretion is the better part of valour. But for a power fantasy like D&D that is intended as interactive dramatic entertainment, there is an assumption that PCs are 'heroes' who act 'heroically' and generally get away with it. We all know that IRL...

Hence the other threads. I think the community has discovered a brand-new snobbery amongst them and they're keen to clamber aboard. So is a game defined as either linear or not, or is it sandbox or not? Are they two different axes? Or do sandbox and linear exist at two ends of a finite...

"My game looks this much like the theoretical sandbox of legend." vs "My game follows an adventure path wherein the players may take whatever actions they wish only to the point they get so far off track that I get sick of improvising/spending 40 hours between sessions world-building and we all...

Equally nonsensical is the idea, 'out there', that games are either 'sandbox' or 'not sandbox'. Though if this is the case, then the "creativity of the GM" in reaction to the actions of the PCs surely invalidates a game as a 'sandbox'. And if it doesn't then a game that is 'not sandbox'...

I think this thread needs less defensive snarkiness all-round actually. Nobody has yet answered the OP's query as to why 'sandbox' is a qualitative rather than quantitative descriptor.

Maybe so but that doesn't invalidate how unhelpful certain niche assumptions are for a poster whose game rests on a broader set of default assumptions.

No I think it's great that you've got a retro hobby. I collect sneakers from the 1980s so there's some common ground between us.

So how do you feel about the new Points of Light assumption? No longer does the game assume a standard world of nations, defined borders, long-distance communications, well-informed NPCs and 'reliable' intelligence. In this setting the PCs will often be the subject matter experts on what...

Less snark please.

I think this the biggest problem with claiming a certain game to be an absolute sandbox (vs games that are not sandboxes) rather than stating the degree to which it is a sandbox (or intended to be). With human DM and players a true sandbox is only possible in theory and one wonders whether it...

While I certainly appreciate your nostalgia for the golden age, I'd say for most of us the game has seriously moved on from the style of play you describe.

Not true at all. If the PCs head east and meet encounter X then that leads to an entirely different situation than if they had gone west and met encounter X, due to the nature of the setting elements in those locations, and encounter X's impact on them. The PCs have made a meaningful choice...

Are you saying that if a game is not a sandbox it's a railroad?

Wow, another false analogy. You're on fire.

Yeh. Sure but I just really like Adventure Paths. If I'm going to use one-shot adventures I may as well use ones that don't require conversion to 4e, like the Goodman Games modules.

People are more sophisticated in their understanding of the relationship between risk and reward these days, particularly as it pertains to finance. Individualisation has led to risk management becoming ingrained into far more people, and from a much younger age. And this is still a game about...

That's a particularly poor analogy mate. Description =/= terminology Yeah I was actually talking about my particular group. No but it does start with the assumption that they are characters in a fantasy world. My own games don't start with the assumption that the PCs are heroes either...

Yeah good point. One of the appeals of my own fluff (which I have often stolen from elsewhere) is that I know it pretty much off by heart. In fact, while reading someone else's fluff, the stuff I remember best is the stuff I can immediately see a use for in my homebrew. The wonders of the...

Agreed totally.