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I think you've misquoted me. I wrote about twenty lines. Or is 'smug and dismissive' your answer to everything?

I think a less snide and more appropriate question for this particular thread, is whether 'sandbox' automatically excludes collaborative world-building. Or we could carry on with another 8 pages of you attempting to muddy the waters. Almost as odd as these incredibly...

When playing a game with such potential power disparity as D&D (30+ levels is a lot) you should be able to tell the players when their characters feel overmatched. I don't think it's an intrusion on PC sovereignty to tell the player what kind of gut feelings their characters have, considering...

The fact that all these games are extremely narrowly focused aside, don't confuse boredom with paralysis. Is that all you've got? 'My way or the highway'? Does a middle ground exist in your world?

A party of PCs will have far more limited collection capabilities than the CIA, especially if they're always out exploring the map. Since you're so happy to keep spouting theory, why don't you tell us how it might work in practice, for a party of PCs to become embroiled in the investigation of...

Absolutely.

Is cinematic play a 'problem'?

Where have I told anybody they're doing it wrong? The only place I've used the term 'wrong' is when I asked "what's wrong with..." I don't have a problem with sandbox play because to me it's just another label. I am curious though as to why everybody has a different definition, and this...

So what's the intent of stating the obvious, if not offense?

Their options are: 1. take up one of the (dissatisfying) hooks on offer, 2. put word out that they're willing to work for free if the job is interesting enough, or 3. wander aimlessly* because they're as likely to randomly bump into a desirable hook as it is to walk through the door of the inn...

That's why it's an insulting strawman. That quote that is "so bloody obvious" was in response to something I wrote, yet had nothing to do with it. I never said the PCs were sitting around in an inn waiting. I said they finished the last session there. In fact, I said this by way of...

Quite a fundamental difference in strokes too, it would seem. Some DMs are open to the idea that their game could be improved with some player input. Let's do away with the insulting strawmen shall we? There might be loads of plot hooks dangling around waiting for the PCs, who are only...

I'm not calling you a liar; I am saying you are wrong. There's quite a difference and in fact, while you can claim to be the sole authority on the former, you can't with the latter. 'Common-sense' is an unhelpful term. It implies ignorance of the underpinning assumptions and groupthink-type...

Puerile. I just explained that. In my last post. If the players, out of character, and the DM had a discussion about where they'd like the game to go, and that direction involved a location, event or NPC the characters were not aware of, then it must be presented to them in-game, else you...

What has this got to do with anything I wrote? And if it doesn't, why reference me in your post? You haven't refuted my point; you haven't even addressed it.

If their characters are living in an inn, an undetermined amount of time after their previous adventure/venture/quest/the-most-recent-loose-end-of-interest-has-been-satisfactorily-wrapped-up, and the elements required for the adventure the players and DM have decided upon don't yet exist in the...

Not true. Things can exist in theory that don't exist IRL. It happens all the time. The idea that an absolute sandbox doesn't exist just means that those claiming to run a sandbox are in fact running their game as close to the ideal of a sandbox as possible. Whereas those not claiming to run...

Or how about this.. There's been a discussion between the DM and players and the consensus is that they want an adventure for which no hooks currently exist (or at least, haven't been revealed, if there's a difference). So the DM presents this hook as an Orc patrol, which the PCs encounter...

I don't have mine any more. Though I do have a pdf of Keep on the Borderlands, amongst others.

I think you're in the wrong thread mate.