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I like to reward creative play as much as the next DM, but not if it breaks the letter AND spirit of a spell or other rule. Can anyone even think of a non-contrived situation where you might want to use the spell to target a square instead of a creature or object?

Then why wasn't the spell an area effect attack in the first place?

Good point. I guess it really shouldn't come up since it is choosing to do the weaker of the 2 effects.

It just seems exploitive to me. I think my players with PCs with a high reflex defense would be really put off if I had the NPC wizard throw force orb at their 5 Ref Def square virtually guaranteeing damage rather than pointing it at their 18 reflex def and having a 50/50 or worse shot at...

The eternal cry of the rules abusive player.

First off, you guys need to tone down the rhetoric. I just suggested that in MY game I would likely not allow it as it stinks of cheese. I did not threaten the sovereignty of anyone else to do differently. Second of all. If you're going to allow them to target the ground and do "splash"...

Maybe, but to me it reeks of cheese. But, as long as the players can deal with the fact that the monsters will be cheese shopping as well I could allow it.

This is an excellent question, and one I haven't really given ANY thought to. I am sure you'll want a chart of the armors and what Ac bonuses they give. Maybe something related to the table they said there would be to help make monsters on the fly. Something to do with skill challenge...

I don't think I would allow it. It says Target: One creature or object. So I don't think a square is a valid target. Also, it says Hit:2d8+5 force damage, make secondary attack. Therefore the secondary attack does not occur unless there is a hit initially.

The characters are attached to this post as is a compilation of other stuff

kudos to you for picking up on the ST IV reference.

Oh good God, if they go Rifts on us, I am outty!! LOL worst.game mechanics.ever.

I wish I could find it again, but somewhere I ran across a report, I am thinking from DDXP, where someone rolled a 20 and remained unconscious but stabilized. It is also possible all that LDS in the 70s is causing hallucinations. I guess I will find out on May 21 when my copy of KotS arrives...

Excellent point! I interpreted it like an OA rather than an immediate action. Thanks for shaking me awake. So, you could effectively swarm the fighter with minions if they do it all at once. The old "mob attacks because you can only kill one of us" routine.

I just relooked at the Fighter's character sheet and I don't see anywhere that it says the fighter can use this ability only once per round. Where did you get that from?

Ari, Maybe you can clarify something. From the DDXP reports it sounds like the death and dying rules have changed from roll a 20 and spend a healing surge for 1/4 hit points to roll a 20 and auto-stabilize but remain unconscious. Can you shed any light? Of course I understand with the NDA...

I find your argument to be completely specious and without merit. But, this last sentence really befuddles me. How does it not have the potential to take out multiple foes with a single casting? Or ar you complaining that it isnt an auto-win button? If thats the answer then your argument...

This

Is that it? Hmmmm.... what a stupid thing to say!!?!?!?! I keed I keed

Thanks Adam. Nice explanation. Who knew I was so anime? I have only seen one anime flick in my life (Legend of the Lodoss War i think) and I wasn't all that impressed. This is one of the best threads on EN right now. Anyone else notice things have slowed to almost a crawl around here?