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I asked a specific question: "Just state, in clear english, exactly the single sentence statement you are making..."

Of course I'm not. That's why I said: I just want to make sure every variation to the claim to be accounted for so they can all be clarified.

Going " I guess I just like to have FUN that's all that matters to me" is always a cop out. Everybody likes fun. Different people think different things are fun--the reasons why they like those things (a much more interesting conversation) is what we're talking about. It just slowwwwws every...

Wait wait wait wait... Is the claim "this is unbeatable without cheating" or "this is unbeatable without cheating in a tournament that allows no buying chickens" or "this is unbeatable with a legit leveled-up PC"? Or have the goalposts been moved again? Just state, in clear english, exactly...

Jon Peterson fact-checks gaming stuff all the time. And "I beat a module" isn't exactly an 'extraordinary claim'" nobody said "I beat the module with the help of ancient aliens". As many many many many people have pointed out, all you need is tons of hirelings, chickens and other canaries to...

Gary Gygax, inventor of D&D and Tomb of Horrors, was the guy who judged the tactic beating the demilich was legit. If he's not an authority on the tournament version of ToH and D&D, who is? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/TombOfHorrors I found that by googling "Tomb of...

Not relevant to the argument, sorry I included a near-synonym and confused the issue Again: not logical. The dwarves being hirable is a concern for the player trying to win in a world where that can happen. Whether that is "rational" is not relevant to the quality of the module. Just like...

I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood. Are you saying: - "The people who post on the internet about having defeated Tomb of Horrors without cheating or having seen it done are lying" ...or are you you saying "The people who post on the internet about having defeated Tomb of Horrors without...

Allegedly the world record for running the mile is Hicham El Guerrouj, who ran a mile in 3:43.13. But really, what are the chances that someone could run a mile that fast? I mean, most people can't. I mean: almost nobody. So, really, what's more likely: someone ran a mile in 3:43.13 or they...

You are leaving out an important detail. The module itself was conflicted and REQUIRED a judgment call, it wasn't just that the judge went easy on the players. There were 8 ways described of killing the demilich. It said these were the onyl way to kill it. There was ALSO an item that would...

Many of these people are still alive. Since you're accusing them of lying in a public place, the least you could do is track them down and ask them before doing that. Also: Nytmare, Eric V.

Considering how many GENUINE and kind of important things there are to argue about in RPGs, I can't see how you can do the second without being the first. It's like seeing a fire people are trying to put out and chucking in a few cherry bombs just so people will pay attention to you.

I mean whatever it is critics are saying when they say the module is "unwinnable". ToH was famously beaten, in one of the first tournaments in which it appeared, by someone who had a RAW leveled-up PC who defeated the Lich using the rules (see Tv Tropes). If you read forums threads there's...

and Eric V, too Your logical fallacy here is an equivocation over the words "logical" and "rational" and "intelligent"--they are used to mean different things in different parts of your argument. In trying to WIN the game, what's logical and rational and intelligent concerns "What actions can...

So you are saying the records (including from tournaments) of people having done this and won are fabricated? Again: how deep does the conspiracy you're imagining go?

So are you or are you not saying that when other people say they beat it without cheating they were lying? Because "You have to cheato win" ("have to") and "My experience" ("we had to") are conflicting statements.

Pick apart the practicalities and economics of things built by crazy wizards for inexplicable crazy reasons (in-world) and transparently to create a challenge for players (out of world) as if the quality of the product depended on that.

So when you wrote: "you literally have to cheat to win." you actually didn't meant that at all and meant to say "revealed the willingness of players in my group to cheat because it was hard"?

Again: are you assuming the people who report winning without cheating are lying? And all the people who are reporting from tournaments, games, etc are helping them lie in order to deceive you? How deep do you believe this conspiracy goes?

Nope,they're not independent-- fudging ALWAYS risks reducing challenge (if someone finds out, just as you are always risking hitting someone in yr car going faster) and fudging literally always changes the story (nobody would fudge from a miss on a 7 to a miss on an 8, it's only worth fudging to...