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It sounds very much to me like people who don't like "Worldbuilding" are just defining it as "You know, that stuff I don't like" "That stuff over there that looks very much like worldbuilding? Nah, that's just... building the world... yeah that's it. That stuffs fine." :)

Oh hey, you're still here and dissecting my posts, did you miss this?; Are you actually arguing that using kickers in a game with some degree of GM-worldbuilding is impossible? It isn't clear. I don't see any sort of definition of GM-worldbuilding in the OP, but I remember now that you are...

Like a lot of RPG terms, the definition is rather vague. It's a bit of player authored stuff (often a sort of backstory) that the GM uses to help "drive the narrative", shape the world, tailor it to PCs, etc. AFAIK the term comes from Ron Edwards "Sorcerer", but as he says something similar has...

Strange question, didn't you say you used them in D&D, a game that assumes GM-worldbuilding to some degree? I have seen them used in many games, mostly D&D, though obviously not by name. If you mean a game that assumes some degree of GM-worldbuilding by default and includes "kickers" by default...

A "no myth" game can use them, so can a game with worldbuilding, okay. The initial situation is only one example of the GM telling a story according to the definition you provided though, it happens all the time. Okay, so the GM is telling a story, but it's different because it's based on...

Ok, by that definition "worldbuilding" can occur without the GM telling a story ie; Describing a forest. Also by that definition, GMs in "no myth" games frequently tell stories to the players ie; The NPC walks across the room and attacks you. What does this have to do with the purpose of...

It's quite simple really. Certain things will be difficult to impossible in a game, it's a part of what makes a game work/seem "real", etc. This can be accomplished in many ways; system rules, house rules, table consent, GM, etc. If you want to state a preference for more of one and less of...

Hopefully by accident, you took that line out of it's context and missed the entire point. It was referring to external modification. Are you sure you aren't trying to get this wrong because you don't like it? Either way you are totally off base. It's not about telling a story, it's about a...

It looks like you are quoting me with 'logically more consistent' but I don't actually see where I said that in the post you quoted :erm: Uhm, I didn't say it can't and I never said there aren't. You don't seem to be addressing what I actually wrote. Then I would argue your entire premise...

With the right people, group worldbuilding and character creation can be just as fun as playing the game.

No, it's always true (or I suppose one could qualify this with in 99.9% of all rpgs or some such, but no exceptions come to mind) that the GM will spend a certain amount of time describing the world to the PCs. If a game exists where the GM never describes the existence of an NPC, what they look...

Nah, it isn't a distraction it is rather central to that feeling I was referring to, for a lot of players. For a lot of players if the world feels too amorphous that feeling is gone, the more it seems like the world is fully formed in a person's mind/notes, etc. the less likely it is to be...

Hey! As someone who belongs/belonged to more than a few dying arts/hobbies/subgroups I have to say that I don't think it's "insulting" to say that a hobby is dying, though it can be a bit disheartening at times. In this case though, it seems wildly wrong and out of touch with reality which...

"Worldbuilding" is for creating that feeling that so many people love. The feeling that they have access to this other but "real" world to experience, explore, and most importantly (as opposed to stories) interact with. The type of feeling that is different from one where they can modify that...

It seems like remarkably little is being said here though, despite all the words we spill. And without "worldbuilding" by a GM a certain amount of table time is spent having the GM tell the players stuff about the world. Yep, most if not all people prefer some actions in some situations to...

That's certainly a common attitude, that D&D is the lowest common denominator and other games are more advanced/refined/sophisticated. Maybe it's true and the people I play with are just pathetic compared to those who prefer other games, it seems like we are having fun but that could just be due...

Not more suited, but more successful overall IME ie; people having fun, wanting to continue the campaign and/or play more often, less complaints and difficulties with the rules, etc. Obviously for many this isn't the case, and possibly if I really want to have success with other systems I would...

Except of course, you can, or rather many people have and often with great results. Doesn't work in all circumstances of course, just like any combination of game/setting/group/etc. but over the years I have actually had a better success rate when running wacky stuff in D&D than with all the...

Yeah I really wish the idea of "amount of rules" = "focus of game" could just be put to bed already, it simply isn't true. A good example I have seen is Poker, by that metric bluffing isn't an important part of the game... which should be ridiculous on the face of it. The amount of rules a...

If a player doesn't value the 5e Rogue's "non combat abilities" ie; skills (which are anything but useless in combat IME), then why are they playing a Rogue? With the way backgrounds were implemented along with class/subclass design they could be playing a fighter, monk, ranger, etc. and still...