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  1. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I don't believe this is in dispute. (At least not if we accept that anything in the setting that defines the plausible was put there by the person designing the setting. I could quibble over semantics, but I can see the general point you're getting at, which is pretty straightforward.) This is...
  2. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    As I mentioned in a subsequent post, the explanation of play to find out found in Blades in the Dark feels quite similar to my existing understanding of emergent story. There may have been all sorts of other discussions going on prior to and concurrent with what was written in Blades that take...
  3. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Fair enough. I didn't really get that as an important distinction from my time with Blades, but that may just be because (as mentioned) I was already very familiar and comfortable with similar concepts and interpreted what I was reading in light of what I already knew and did. I think it's a...
  4. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Based on my experience with BitD, play to find out just comes down to the fact you don't have a predetermined story in mind that the group is trying to bring to life. Here is the situation, now the PCs get involved; what happens? No one knows, yet, we play to find out. From Blades (emphasis...
  5. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    While some of the specific terminology comes from PbtA, most of the concepts predate Apocalypse World by a long way. The play to find out concept was certainly seeing a lot of support in the early OSR, around the same time Apocalypse World was released, the OSR was just more likely to talk...
  6. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I would guess the original comment being quoted had more to do with games where the need to interact with random stuff was standard and expected or necessary, not just an occasional option. In that context, it would make sense to me.
  7. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Some participants my be interested to learn about Suspension of Disbelief. Or not. If anyone would prefer to believe that pretending to themselves that something could be real even though they know it is not is some kind of obstacle to participating in the TTRPG hobby, that is certainly their...
  8. SableWyvern

    What does it take for an RPG to die?

    Rolemaster Classic is a fairly safe starting point -- it's basically RM2 cleaned up a little. At it's core it's a well balanced, relatively simple and very usable system. Start adding stuff from the companions and it's all over the place though. I'm a fan of RMSS/RMFRP, but I've done...
  9. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I defer to @robertsconley comments about different fundamental axioms. I'd guess I'm less equipped than him to have that debate, and I'm equally uninterested. You're welcome to whichever definition of agency you prefer but, whichever you choose, there is clearly no room for a meaningful...
  10. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    The two seem fairly easy to reconcile with each other if you accept that a valid goal can be to meander about and see what happens. The classic example, of course, is, "I wonder what will happen if I pull this lever." The specific result you're looking for is, "I find out, hopefully in...
  11. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I can only speak for myself, but what would happen is the player would only select orcs as a favoured enemy if they already know there will be orcs in the campaign or they have discussed it with me and we've confirmed opportunities to face orcs will be sufficient to satisfy them. Generally...
  12. SableWyvern

    What does it take for an RPG to die?

    I've used it for fairly conventional D&D-esque adventuring through Mirkwood, Moria and places in between. For low-powered urban hijinks in Tharbad. For extremely high level play as Noldor, Vanyar and others conducting special forces actions into Melkor's domain. As others have said, it's not...
  13. SableWyvern

    What does it take for an RPG to die?

    We pottered around with red box BECMI a tiny bit. Then I bought a friend's older brother's copy of MERP and started running it on my 13th birthday. Cue ten years of consistently running MERP and RM. While I've branched out a lot more since then, I always go back to RM; my next campaign is likely...
  14. SableWyvern

    What does it take for an RPG to die?

    I stand by my statement. It doesn't matter to me.
  15. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    In the first post, I'm saying, "People can enjoy whatever they like in their own games." In the second, I'm saying, "This is how I handle a situation where I'm confident there will be a negative outcome unless I step in." I can't see how that's contradictory, unless you're suggesting that I'm...
  16. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Well, if the original statement was an absolute, I disagree with that as well, and will give @hawkeyefan the benefit of the doubt in being somewhat justified in replying similarly.
  17. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Right. Hawkeyfan has spoken. Heceforth no one should waste their time with that and, if they chose to do so, they must be playing wrong. For some people, it might not be considered a waste of time. That's their call to make, in their own game, not yours.
  18. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I'm not sure either, then. I do know that, if my players are fixated on some meaningless minutiae and it looks like it's going to result in a lot of boring, frustrating, time wasting in the real world, that no one will enjoy, I'll certainly tell my players and find away to avoid that. I can...
  19. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    If the player enjoys the style of play being discussed, where the aim is to withhold this type information, then one would assume the players themselves care. And I don't understand why you talk about how player agency is so important, but refuse to consider that the players, in this case, might...
  20. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    In the hypothetical, the player wants to actually solve the mystery in the same way their character would. Not merely play a character who solves a mystery, but actually work through the same steps to solve it, with the same perspective of events as the character has. If you give the player the...
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