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Telling people that their method of play is predicated on avoiding interesting things and mostly being "dull as dishwater" is going to advance a civil discussion how, exactly?

Does the difference between Soup A and Soup B matter? If no, then pick one for whichever arbitrary reason you wish. The choice doesn't matter, the reason for the choice doesn't matter, because it will never impact play. Worrying about things that simply and literally do not matter is a waste of...

This a broad, vague question. I don't think you should surprised to learn that my answer is that it's context dependent and very similar to the answers I've already provided. Is this a rhetorical question? Is there any possibility, after this entire thread, where I've been saying post after...

This is a good point. @hawkeyefan, it occurs to me that I should add to my previous response to you that, if I'm going to err in the amount of information I'm providing, I definitely aim for it to be too much, rather than too little.

In the majority of cases, I think it's supported by sharing information the character would have access to and hiding information the character would not have access to. "A GM" is extremely vague. Which GM out of the hundreds of thousands are we talking about? I don't know the vast majority of...

If you, @pemerton, berate a local mechanic, this could result in the mechanic relenting and giving you what you want. Or, it could result in the mechanic bristling, and refusing to do further business with you. Either is possible. If the mechanic is at liberty to react in either fashion (or in...

I mean that the players are able to make decisions from the perspective of their characters with what feels like the same degree of reliability as those characters would have were those characters and the world they existed in real; and that the outcomes of those decisions feel consistent with...

What does it matter if it's a low threshold? Is there something inherently superior about setting oneself a more difficult task, when the simpler task is providing the desired outcomes? In any case, while there are a wide range of possible outcomes, the number of likely outcomes is smaller. If...

You know it's consistent when the outcomes of your decisions consistently make sense. A lot of people are talking about how players can't make informed decisions in this style of play, but those advocating it know that players are in fact making informed decisions. And sure, it's always...

Because your average GM is certainly comparable in power, influence and authority to the Pope...

I completely fail to understand it why you'd even want to, but there are definitely people on this board and elsewhere who claim to play without trust. It's an utterly alien position to me, but there are people who seem to genuinely mean it.

Yet you have the ongoing power to withdraw consent at any time. And note that this isn't a simple black and white, "Stay or walk out". Any player should be perfectly capable of saying, "Hey, this doesn't seem to make logical sense, what's going on?" In fact, I would say that doing so (if you...

A few posts ago, I said a particular decision could be made by mutual consent. You responded by asking me to defend my claim that the only thing a sandbox needs is mutual consent -- but I had made no such claim at all. I didn't jump to the extreme position that a sandbox needs nothing but...

Well, if you honestly believe anyone in this thread is arguing that it is possible to run a game without any form of consent from the players, then you are absolutely correct, there is no possible hope of progress. I mean, I also understand why you would disagree with someone holding that...

Well, if you can find any example from anyone in this thread actually claiming that a GM in any style of play is able to make any decision without either the implicit or explicit consent of the players, I will happily join you in disagreeing with them.

One: If you can point me to where I said mutual consent is the only thing a sandbox needs, I'll be happy to address this point. Otherwise, I will pass on that straw man. Two: If someone else told you GM's can run games without the consent of their players, take it up with them, there's no point...

I don't see why it has to be a binary one or the other. From my perspective, it's both; without the cooperation of both players and GM, nothing happens at all. If the PCs arrive at a given location and play continues, it must be by mutual consent.

As long as we're talking about maps and sandboxes, I have discovered that maps based mostly on landmarks, combined with the Alexandrian's hexcrawling rules make for some of the most evocative wildnerness exploration I've been involved in.