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I'm going to stick with the bolded defintion then. By that defiinition, a martial daily isn't a plot coupon. Let's take "brutal strike". It completelly fails to fulfill your definition because: 1) it does not modify the story. It just do damage. If doing damage is modifying the story, then...

what definition of plot coupon are we following here? Because that sounds to me a dissociative mechanic, not a plot coupon. This is a plot coupon as I understand it. Unless we are using "plot coupons" and "dissociative mechanics" as both synomym of "I don't like it". Then if A=B and A=C, that...

I haven't said "faith=judeo-christian". I have said "faith turning undeads=judeo-christian", which is completelly different. Of course Roma's Vestals had faith in Jupiter, and norse's gothis had faith in Thor, and aztechs priests had faith in Huitzilopochtli. Just like modern tibetan lamas have...

Lots of the "sacrifce human for me" gods of the Aztechs and Mayans would be evil under D&D moral compass. Sacrificing unwilling people for power is evil, as far as D&D alignment goes. Furthermore, you don't find a lot of "evil gods" in real life, because real life does not have inherently evil...

AFAIK, 2e did for paladins (and I house ruled it for clerics too). I think Dark Sun priests (who are elemental-based) were able to turn elementals of the opposite element, and rebuke his own element too. Imho, it makes much more sense than turning undeads, even for good-aligned "judeo-christian...

Then a standard basic attack is a plot coupon also. I've had an archer dirsrupting the demon-summoning ritual with a well-placed arrow too.

One might think that Nerull doesn't want his cleric to be healing people all around, but he *does* worry about his mighty pope of the Nerull religion, who is his pawn and is going to fulfill his will in the earth, can heal *himself* so he can survive and, well, actully fulfill his will in the...

I like psions, but I acknowledge that for a big chunk of the playerbase, they range from "meh" to "don't mess your chocolete in to my peanut d&d". So the preassure for them is lower, the R&D team can safely let the psion behind the curtain for a year or two without backlash.

It feels it's you who is applying the logic very selectively. If it's the power of faith itself wht turn the undead, why not the power of the faith itself turn demons? Or Rakshashas? Or Basilisks? The god of fire isn't controlling. He gives his follower *broad* spells to make them survive, as...

I think they put Warlocks and Sorcerors in the playtest so soon, because they want to test new magic systems. Monks, paladins, rangers, etc, have a lesser impact in game design. Magic (vancian/non-vancian) is crucial for a lot of people, so they want to nail this down as soon as possible

Because they care about their followers being alive? :) For the same reasons, one could think all gods care about their clerics being able to survive a fight, or being prepared to defeat the religion's enemies. So all the gods might give their followers a serie of spells that are combat...

Well, in 2e the specialty priests had access to "domains" and could only cast spells from that domains. So a priest of war couldn't cast "antiplant shell" and a priest of plants couldn't cast "blade barrier", although both of the could cast "bless". It didn't take more than a couple pages in...

Fine. Why does not the cleric then appeal to their god for protection from the abomination that is a dragon? Or a Beholder? Or a Basilisk, or a Mind Flayer, or a Rakhshasha? Why not ask for protection from the abomination than a Hecatoncheires (who actually has the Abomination template)? Why...

I also find plausible that in a fantasy game, a cleric can turn the power of his faith in a real and tangible thing. It just make no sense than the faith of a cleric from the god of Fire is able to turn undeads instead of, say, water elementals, or the faith of a god of Gnomes turn away ghosts...

High level PC (15+) are superheroes.

I have to spread experience and all that crap, but I'd like to thank you for this nice scale.

Isn't that what I've just said? :hmm::hmm::hmm:

I'd go as far as to say *most* clerics don't give a crap about undead. Using default 3rd edition pantheon as an example: Gods that don't give a crap about undead Boccob, god of magic. Necromancy is a form of magic too. Corellon Larethian, god of elves, magic, music, and arts. Garl...

Emerikol said martial dailies are plot coupons. If "Brutal strike" affect plots, then so does Magic Missile. And some spells are *waaaayy* much more plot coupons than any martial daily. Scry, Teleport, Speak with the Dead, Augury, Locate Object, True Seeing, Zone of Truth.... there are like a...

I know, that's my point: "I can make a STR 8 and DEX 18 fighter that wears a heavy armor and use a finesse weapon, so that's a moot point." 5e allows for such character to be viable. Some editions of D&D, do not, because the Katana isn't a finesse weapon.