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This is more a problem with the mage classes. Remember, Sorcerers didnt come along until later. Thats why I wish they had a mage class without a built in "born mage" or "learned mage" nature. I feel somewhat the same about the nature/druid thing. I could kind of see druid and wizard a bit...

The trouble is, the Paladin fills the idea of "holy warrior" a lot better than the Cleric in terms of concept versus overall mechanics. Paladins have full BAB and armor and weapons, and relatively few spells. The trouble is, Clerics are *nearly* as good a warriors at base, and can have the...

I dont mean this contentiously but I dont think thats a very good analogy. Tolkiens Elves were all elves, wether Light, Dark or Grey, Noldar Teleri or Vanyar, Avari or...the names for the other groups that escape me at the moment. But they were all Elves. I think having Elves that are "wood"...

I now understand what you mean more, from our discussions in the other thread, but I disagree strongly on one point. Nobody is talking about every class being equal in every situation. Most of the discussions and the proposed changes are about the classes being able to contribute to an equal...

So if you want to take part in fighting (combat) you shouldnt play a wizard, ranger, paladin, monk, druid, warlord, sorcerer, cleric or any other class besides fighter? Seriously why do some people have such trouble with the idea of all classes being able to contribute to an equal degree to...

I would say, why couldnt they just have Elves and Wood Elves in the PH, and let Eladrins remain Celestial Outisders?

But they also get to be the powerful magic flingy Priest of the god, as well as the martial champion. Which is why if it were me, 4e would make the Cleric into a just-priest, and Paladins the martial champions. I think we will see the alignment restrictions mostly go away, of which I am glad.

On a personal level, I dont much care for "wood elves" becoming the default, or "high" elves being given the name "Eladrin." But thats ok, chances are many will house rule it and call elves elves and wood elves wood elves. Things like this don't tend to get my dander up as much as other things.

I really have no idea how so many people are leaping to the conclusion that wizards will have unlimited magic...in a way like having unlimited SPELLS would mean now...and I have even less idea how they've come to the conclusion that wizards will no longer need to be strategic and judicious...

And this is one of the other things I've been getting at, also put better

This is a lot of what I've been getting at, put better.

*cheers*

So basically low level wizards should be restricted to casting one or maybe two spells per encounter. try to remember just how few spells low level wizards have. And bear in mind also that especially if they want to have any utility/divination etc spells, thats going to mean less combat...

I think your making a number of leaps and assumptions here. And I think what he means is, every encounter will be a "major" "fun" encounter, until you get to the point where you have to stop and rest. Also I think you need to get past the idea that *all* they are doing is "replacing the...

But....if you still have access to all the same abilities, you can still play the same way you did before... I cant really understand why you would want some classes to have more and more effective resources than others. *different types of abilities and capabilites* yes. And I dont see how...

From what little we know, I think it will be the latter. The plain english version of Epic. Or at least something close to it. A bit of "wackyness" will probably insue, but I think it wont be too excessive.

Exactly. Just because their will be "per encounter abilities" doesnt mean those abilities will be sufficient to deal with every situation. And yes, a party can still *choose* to rest constantly and reset themselves to 100%, but thats already the case...and as it is you have to do so. And you...

But see, for many many people, a class...not just the mechanics of a class, but its archtype, concept, and mechanics, can NOT be boiled down to a few feats.

Yes. I think a true Mage class, a real master of *all* forms of magic, and one that you can play with whatever "origin" or "power source" you see fit, would really do D&D some good. But its unlikely to happen, because D&D will never remove the Cleric or the idea that "god magic=healing and...

Where are you getting this impression exactly?