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Hey, that was my idea, thief! :) That's the last time I have lunch with you!

Unspoken rules are what get you in trouble with your girlfriend. Among men, let all things be said!

The Forge strikes again! :)

Why doesn't anybody read what I wrote? I'm not even using arcane jargon to make my point. :\

True, sorry, I wasn't thinking when I posted this. :) I saw some kids playing Munchkin at a local convention a few weeks ago, and the kid that was teaching it was probably only 12 or so. It made me realize how strong a product that is.

I think d20 Modern was very poorly designed.

Do you reject dramatic irony 100%? :D

Well, sorta. :) If you told me some crap movie I'd never heard of was the greatest film ever made and that all commercially successful films from the last 5 years owed it gratitude, I would think you were off your rocker. "High quality products will find distribution" is not the same thing as...

But everything you write from now on will be directly influenced by it. :D

I don't really want to talk about game quality. I've not read much of the Forge's actual games, and I'm not here to bash creators for their work. If we don't agree on the mousetrap analogy, then we're not going to agree, because I define superior products by what the market wants, and especially...

I think part of the problem is that Dave Turner said BW has mechanics tied into player goals, when I think maybe he meant player-stated *character* goals. Burning Wheel has some good ideas.

What's the point in creating "the most superior, influential RPG in history" if you aren't attempting to distribute it? It's like people that claim to be great writers who never submit their work, or people that talk about what they could have done if they'd played college ball...it's worthless...

Dave Turner, this was aimed at you. :)

It says if Krusk is climbing up a DC 10 cliff, he can just Take 10 instead of making all the rolls called for. It's right there in the Player's Handbook. I know, I know...that "doesn't count."

And if a group of guys came on the internet and said that they invented streaming audio and internet radio and that all other internet audio was crap because they coined it "podcasting" they'd be laughed off the blogosphere (damn, that one's taken!). :)

For the sake of brevity, I'm willing to amend my statement to "your game is limited and weak." Then we have a built-in example and won't get caught up in semantic traps. :)

I play fun games too. I don't even tell other people their games suck and are wrong and are wholly derivative of the games I play. But I guess some people need that self-congratulation. :)

See, I"m getting drawn into Forge-style deconstruction. If only Derrida was a roleplayer. Let's keep it simple, for me: Your thief stands at the end of a long corridor filled with traps. Each trap is successively more difficult to bypass, so that only a master thief could bypass them all...

"But unlike it's predecessors, this system is versatile and powerful..." There's a prime example from Burning Wheel (not to pick on it, but it's fresh :) ). Or, "D&D, Shadowrun, and HERO are all directly influenced by the theories of the Forge." Lunacy.

D&D is the ultimate game system and provides everything you ever need for a true roleplaying experience. Sound good? :) By the way, I guess in your circle they might be rare, but there are hundreds of thousands of people playing D&D for the sole purpose of hacking some orcs in simulated...