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I think that Bryon and Hussar have very different internalized meanings of Narrative. Hussar's definition seems (I may be wrong) to be a plain english meaning of a narrative as the recounting of a story. With an implication that it is most concerned with the detailed events of play. From that...

Could well be. If we had tried that out starting with new characters I think it would have taken a while to feel broken. We may have even tried some other variants to balance the higher level spells. There's a lot of water under that bridge now, and sadly not all of those friends are still...

If I remember right, and this was 1e days, I was playing a 6/5 F/MU and joined a running group so I was a level or behind. Single class casters were 7 or so for the magic user and 8 or 9 for the cleric. The DM ended up getting into a cycle of increasing items to the non-casters to try and keep...

I have disagreed with some of your earlier posts in this thread, but I found myself nodding in agreement reading this one. Mostly I like 4e, but I'm not sure I'm going to keep running my campaign using that ruleset anymore. While it is vastly easier to run than 3e was for me, the experience...

Batteries are expensive, robots need work too. :p Thanks for the clarification. For what its worth, I agree with all 4 points. Back in the late 70's Gygax made a conscious decision to split D&D from AD&D and to use D&D as the entry point for new gamers into the hobby. I think if a similar...

Thanks for that. I think that part of the discussion did go off the rails. I apologize for having helped take it of track earlier in thread. I quite agree that the design feel (some of which I am not thrilled with) of 4e permeates the SC mechanics. With mixed results, in my experience. I...

Honestly, I think this is more a result of changes to other parts of the system than inherent to Vancian magic systems. The difficulty of interrupting spell casting after changes to the initiative system, the introduction of meta-magic feats, the ability to sac cast healing by clerics, a...

After 2 years of 4e's design to give everyone something to do in every situation, I vehemently disagree with this. I very much prefer a rotating spotlight approach. If everyone is special, then no one is special.

I used to agree with this. Then we tried playing a 1e game using a houserule that spell slots determined only number of castable spells with no pre-memorization. The casters came to dominate play since they always had the perfect spell. We went back to memorization after a few months. There...

Have to spread XP, etc. HERO is a great choice for non-Vancian, flavorful magic systems.

After being away from the thread for a few days and just catching up on the last several pages of the thread, I have a few thoughts. First, whether you like or dislike Skill Challenges I am struggling to see how they can keep someone from feeling like 4e is D&D. Every edition has had some rules...

Greyhawk, if they would undo all of the crappy From the Ashes material from the 2e days. I'd really like to see the original setting reprinted.

Now this I completely agree with. I would even look at it from a step further back. First and foremost, to me, D&D and other RPGs are games and I play games to have fun. Fiction and mechanics are both secondary considerations to fun and so, at my table, neither is more important to the other...

It also got rid of the multi-classing that existed in 1e and 2e. Baby and the bathwater.

If I compare each edition back to the original than I would have voted 4e. I think of the editions as a contimuum and from that viewpoint I think 3e was a bigger departure from 2e than 4e is from 3.5.

Even the 6/3 was a DM choice, just like deciding he wanted to use Level 6 Ogres instead of Level 10 trolls for an encounter. The DM could as easily have decided more or fewer succeses were required for the skill challenge.

Hence the almost. ;) I probably should have left old school out of it since there is no more agreement on what that means than what is D&D. :) It is the one place in the base rules where the DM is expected to use a lot of situational judgement to make a ruling on play. Something that the 4e...

Except you cut off part of his quote where he states that multiple succeses are possible for some actions. There are some very good design notes and suggestions in DMG2 and in Mearls series of articles in Dragon concerning skill challenges. Things like allowing automatic successes for...

At least anecdotally there is some evidence they have had some success. I'm running a table for a local Meetup group where 5 of the 6 players are MMO players looking for a broader gaming experience. For 3 of them my 4e game is their sole tabletop experience. A couple had tried a 3e game a few...

You caught me. :lol: I was backing into my original point. MMO or Tabletop, roleplaying is only as deep as the player chooses to take it. An overglorified war-game unit at the table sounds awfully like playing an MMO character. I'm not going to be the one to tell either player they are doing...