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This is not an example of "player actions made within the confines of their PCs in an active game" being vetoed. From my understanding if what you have written previously, your PC actually got to try to convince the priesthood of Seth to the extent possible within the confines of the PC. The...

I bolded the problem. Here the GM made a claim about the mechanics. I agree that claim is dubious at best. (It might go in a tangent about the ambiguity in the meaning of the word "lying", as the GM might really believe the claim themselves. But I think this is irrelevant for your point, which I...

No. First of, I avoid using the word "system", as that might for instance include tools a GM has set up for themselves to help with the game beyond ruleset. I think what you want to talk about is what I think is less ambiguously refered to as ruleset. So I do in my post explicitely state I...

I think the overall anti-tesis to your thesis is yes to your last question. I think the issue is that once you give the GM the level of powers and responsibilities found in traditional RPGs, it is no longer sufficient to merely look at the ruleset to identify the relevant properties of a game...

Just have to point out: Your example is more profound than that. I do consider the power to provide a narration to a random generator that does the mechanical formality of selecting if that narration is going to take effect a formal power of narration. I do not consider the power of suggesting...

I think there are two elements here that I think make the situation interesting and maybe unusual in the context of this thread. One thing is that as this was 13age, I assume the general GM editor role was in effect, that is the GM could at any point have stepped in and declared anything...

Strange? None of your players have taken you up on your offer to mentor them? My best game experience as a player was with one of my former players doing their first shot at DMing. Given it is a sellers market it shouldn't be that hard to find a group with some promising aprentice candidates...

This analogy is not perfect. It is good in that we have in both cases a feel that we can question the "validity of" (Are you really railroaded? Do you really have reality bending powers?) The problem I see is that the first uses a relatively well defined term that can allow the question to gain...

But how about people that want absolute power over a fiction? What about people that want someone else to have absolute power over a fiction? I find this claim quite extraordinary even without this modifier. With these modifiers (that need to be there if talking about what has been the topic of...

I agree 1 is having it's own set of problems. I decided to not engage with it in this context as I think a much weaker form is common and what has actually been argued - but that this weaker form still allow for the argument posed. 2 Is also not standing on it's own in terms of formulation...

Ok. I then think the reason you are not seeing it more is that this social cost is also so well recognized that people think also that go without saying. Indeed it might go deeper than that. I was now intending to write some words in recognition of such social cost... And find myself not being...

It is reality altering powers, and as such should be attempted avoided. Can you show me someone claiming to actually have managed it to perfection? (There is a difference between claiming to have made it really cold, and claiming to have reached 0K) If so I would like to argue with them that...

Yet this was in reply to a post where a person indeed recognized such a social cost, other than the banal "you won't have players."...

Ah. I think I see the issue. Would it alter your perception if 2 and 3 is ideals that is sought but not actually obtainable? I think the unobtainability of these might be what saves the play style from degenerating in the way you seem to describe. That is your theoretical deduction of the...

I do not see the connection between your example and the concept of fleshing out the entire world in absolute detail?

Imagine you feel like running Dungeon World. You ask your friend if they are interested to play. Your friend say they do not feel like that right now. You then find a group of people that actually are interested in playing Dungeon World. Would starting a campaign with them feel like you are...

I think this is the claim that is being disputed. And further, even if not required, it might still be desireable. Even to the point of insistence. There have been numerous attempts in this thread to propose alternatives the way you list earlier in your post here. All of them have been rejected...

Really? In that case maybe this because noone has been aware of ultra fixed settings with everything being nailed down to extreme detail up front being a relevant situation to discuss, so no reason to adress this difference? (Edit: The closest example I can think of somewhat relevant to this...

Playing a character that doesn't seem to know the world is what I get from the context.

I think the point might be that limiting away Thiefling is ok, but doing so because having mapped out everything is not ok. The reason for this is that according to this stance having mapped out everything is not ok, and that is implied in the first sentence. A bit convoluted. But I guess maybe...