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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    As we are getting into these details. There is no base 10 in 5ed. 10 is the "armor" for not wearing anything but ordinary clothes. The effect of each armor type is presented as a new base AC.
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Here we are back to the context problem that was the entire point of my post. Are we talking about floating devices, or are we talking about cruise ships? Seemingly the context here was so poorly defined that I thought we talked about the former while you seem to posit that @EzekielRaiden talked...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I want to emphasise this so much. This is what I want to see more of. I completely agree and want to stand side by side with you in dismantling any counter arguments that might be coming our way. Even if my meta frustration blow-out turn out to do nothing more than help you produce this gem of...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I might have misread the grounds for why they would be considered irrelevant? How is the notion that absence of rules can provide a better simulation irrelevant in game design of sims? The only way I could see was if you totally reject that notion, which is the hard line kriegspiel line of the...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I would cut the quote here, as this is the argument I think is strong in the post (the rest seem to be rehashing things already picked appart). I think you are here onto something important. The rules of D&D are there to support game. The fameous Gygax quote given a few times in this tread...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Do the rules say that? A good thing D&D has an almighty GM that can override such ridiculousness when desired! Here is a free D&D suplement: Faling from great height. If falling more than 500ft the character declares at the end of their turn how far they want to fall - between 500 and 1000ft...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I actually see there being clear silos in both video and board game segment. Go and chess have a strong following with people I have reason to believe go quite exclusive. I also get the impression that competative video game genres like FPS, RTS and MoBA has folowers that is close to exclusive...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Yes, this is the common counter - and there has never been possible to reach an agreement on where the limit for sufficient competency lies. We have the hardliners on one side that rejects the notion any sort of expertise can justify the removal of mechanics, while the hardliners on the other...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    How can you evaluate a spesific game in a truely context free case? The game under evaluation seem to be context? This thread have touched upon a lot more games than D&D. I don't think even this level of context have been established for this thread. I am pretty sure runequest, rolemaster...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Are you telling me that in PbtA you actually have the GM using the various player moves as tools they can invoke at will, and treat the fictional trigger descriptions merely as guidelines?? That would indeed be eye opening and surprising given all the seemingly contradicting claims I have heard.
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Neither did I. In context "absence" reflects back on your statement about "aren't a lot". I guess I could have been clearer if I had added "relative" before "absence" or something like that, but didn't think that was neccessary for comprehension. (It is part of the story that I myself dont know...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    No. I did a typical DMing thing. I just point out that if indeed that was what the DW people tried to do they did a quite bad job out of it when they wrote down the list of principles. I am pretty sure what they actually did was to look at a particular kind of game they liked, thought deeply...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I think the answer here is very simple. Free Kriegspeil tried to improve simulation by getting rid off all the mechanics. I think it is easy to see that the activity tried to simulate war, while not having any mechanics to simulate anything. D&D arose from offshoot of that tradition, so there...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    The troubleling thing with the conversation is that while 1 and 2 might be right, trying to nail down anything more spesific is so extremely contextual that the conversation stalls on trying and failing to define an aproperiate context. The big one is what we aim to simulate. An airplane...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Nope. They look at what seem to go on in trad game, think they can codify it to produce the same behavior, and miss that the codification actuactually prevents the process that is actually going on in trad games. You get something that looks deceptively similar in play 99% of the time. But the...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    So you see how I consider the entire notion of "simulationistic game" silly? Even the conversation about how some rules might be better at supporting "simulationistic play" than others is in my eyes speculative at best, and seem to have born very little fruits.
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    You are now trying to impose a single definition of "sim" onto a conversation that has shown that there are a lot of understandings of "sim play", most of them hardly having anything to do with the everyday word "simulation". I do believe @Lanefan intended one of these technical terms, and I...
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    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Because it clearly was an "errata". They didnt have the distribution technology to effectively distribute otherwise at that point in time. That way we living in the happy future can take advantage of the superrior way of experience the dragonlance saga, closer to the way the authors intended...
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