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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    I would argue that 3.x can plausibly model the normal range of human skills (including "highly skilled") within its mechanics, without a character ever being above 1st level. I once made a long, boring post incorporating those ideas - bear in mind that this post was made seventeen years ago...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    I doubt the division was articulated in those terms. I don't think there were "1HD mooks" - but there were bandits, brigands, men-at-arms etc. And brief rules for sedentary and active commoners, if you found yourself in a bar room brawl. No reskinning required. The existence of Rogues Gallery -...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    Yes, Phoebus - he was a reincarnated human fighter. How about the hundreds of meticulously detailed characters - fighters, paladins, rangers, thieves, clerics, magic users, illusionists, druids and assassins - which don't represent corner cases?
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    How does this 1980 supplement fit in? The preamble on the cover seems to suggest a certain methodology was assumed and prevailed: No longer will you the Dungeon Master need to spend precious time laboring over the task of generating non player characters. This valuable booklet contains...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    Great post, and I think it covers pretty much all of the bases. As I stated (up front, umpteen posts ago), I'm not actually married to this notion of symmetry in any philosophical sense. My contention has just been that AD&D did, to a significant degree, demonstrate it. This comes closest to...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    If you mean "there's lots of weird, inconsistent rules which make it hard to state anything categorically about AD&D" then I'd agree, but I don't think it invalidates the wider point. YMMV. And I don't disagree with this either. I'm pointing out that some people like a predictable, shared...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    Sure. And there are plenty of omissions of data, some shorthand, some implicit assumptions, some mistakes, plenty of arbitrary assignments of abilities and hit points etc. But a 5th-level Fighter is still a 5th-level Fighter, and that still has an objective meaning and value, and certain...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    I agree - although we're still left with the question of where this "break point" occurs in terms of divergence from genre expectations. I don't think they were intended to map exactly; it's more about "average" specimens. And bear in mind that no hit point penalty occurs unless Con is below 7...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    I'm not exactly sure what you're disagreeing with, as the section of my post which you cited is framed largely as a question, but if you're disagreeing with the idea that genre fidelity must either yield to player autonomy or vice versa then I would suggest: in a no-magic world where the...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    This isn't so much about establishing a dialogue regarding a mutually agreed premise, and finding creative ways to accommodate the wishes of players - I'm all about that. Several posters have answered in those terms already. And I'm not really concerned about player motivation - several posters...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    I'm not defending the utility of listing the CON - or any other ability - of the human rogue in the cell, Obmi, or all of the Drow. Merely pointing out the fact that Gygax did, in fact, list all of these. Dex and Con bonuses appear factored into AC and HP. Str bonuses are noted. Magical plusses...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    In 1e, an NPC "character sheet" is a brief stat block: level, ability scores, hp, AC, alignment, spells, equipment - but bear in mind that a PC character sheet is barely any more than that: you might add languages and encumbrance. While there are plenty of examples of deviation from any standard...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    I think the notion that the PCs - even in the most simulationist manifestations of D&D - are anything other than special is generally unsupportable. Whether they use a different method of determining stats, are expected to possess different magic items etc. The question of their deviation from...
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    D&D 3.x 3rd Edition Revisited - Better play with the power of hindsight?

    I was curious, so I dug around. There is a post in this thread (#6 by daremetoidareyo) which lists all PrCs with caster level progression. I counted 107 PrCs with full progression. Not that 3.5 was bloated, or anything. o_O
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    I guess this gets to the crux of it for me, as I'm not so confident that such a divide - between the table/genre and the fiction/gameworld - can be so starkly asserted. Maybe I view it as more of a lens with a variable focus, with increasing tightness and specificty, with the proviso that...
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    True, although "being the Chosen One" (or at least a Chosen One) is doing a lot of the lifting for Goldmoon, and, to be fair, "being the Chosen One" is a pretty foolproof means of defying other conventions.
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    "Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

    Forgive me if this has been asked before - and maybe point me in the direction of some discussion surrounding it; I don't normally participate in playstyle threads, although I might dip a toe occasionally. If we consider: The referee proposes a Dragonlance game. One of the players wants to be...
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