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How I just learned about these Nentir Vale campaigns just today? 😔😔 I'm itching to play in the Nentir Vale for years now, and play by post is excellent to bypass my horrible spoken/listened English. I think I will have to await for a new campaign to start...

It is, though? Last time I read my books, the evil gods reward those who serve them. The punishment and eternal torment is for those who failed them. But, no, it isn't a good thing to kill someone using as excuse that you're offering they "salvation". That kind of backward philosophy is what...

That's Evil in my book. But, well, we are talking about Gygax. For him, genociding is an LG act because... What was what he said? Ah, yes, "nits makes lice".

On their own time, with their own process. By the time they achieve Nirvana, we current humans would have been there for a whole Mahakalpa. Good, when it falls from its own standards, is not Good anymore. That's the point I arguing about: for Muscular Neutrality to work, we need to transform...

That they aren't purposefully ending all life. They aren't going to destroy all animals (life) or plants (also life), when they go. Nor they are about forcing those that don't want to go to go with them. If life ends, that's the natural cycle of things, not because the forces of good actively...

Another of the established priors is that good needs to be actually good.

A double post brought to you by the Gym Bro Neutrals Gym.

But Nirvana is not about to destroy the World. Is about leaving it behind, and you don't need to destroy it to leave to a better place. Again, that's just twisting how things actually are into things that they aren't, just to make the gym bro neutrals a valid point.

The issue is when the Circle go and helps demons destroy a village so that devils can't win the Blood War, or the forces of Good can't cripple the Blood War in any significant way (as is implied that they do, according to 5e lore).

If Neutrals can't be champions, does that means they are losers?

But that is just one possible direction we have to take to make gymbro neutrality work. And for that we need to change how Good acts (turning it into Actually-not-so-Good), because destroying the universe to avoid suffering it's not a good thing to do. Sure, you should leave the universe to...

I think @Clint_L gave you a better answer than what I was thinking, lol I know some people who genuinely disagree with you about this, Snarf.

Gravity doesn't influence in the moral quandaries of interaction.

And it made sense while it remained that way. When they made it a thing to determine individuals instead of armies, and added a moral attribute to it as well, it began to lose sense.

Well, that's the point: taking away agency falls into the Evil department in my book. A person should be allowed to save or damn their soul on their own free will. You can stop that evil choice by persuasion, force or another method of your choice, but the moment you take away that...

But that would be a group of people choosing to behave that way because of their beliefs (and that is something I can use in my games), not because there is some cosmic force that enforces lukewarmness in the multiverse, something that makes no sense as it forces Good to be Actually-not-Good, or...

And they oppose those that try to impose their morality on others... By trying to impose their own lack of morality on others!

Again, implementation. Is that process something forced upon everyone? Or something that everyone wants and accepted on their free will? The existence of the musclehead neutrals means that no, no everyone want that. So, it is forced, and then it is evil. It doesn't matter if the result is...

Again, it's not the intention but how it's implemented. I'm willingly joining the Godhead, or are you forcing me to do it? It doesn't matter if you give me the ultimate bliss, if that bliss is forced, because that would be tyranny.

Depends. How are you implementing the "better universe"? Are you sharing your pacifist ways by force, or are you allowing people to choose them on their own free will? Is your "better universe" the best for everyone, or just for yourself and likeminded individuals? If an individual has good...