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There is this in the introduction "wonders of magic" section.. "For adventurers, though, magic is key to their survival. Without the healing magic of clerics and paladins, adventurers would quickly succumb to their wounds. Without the uplifting magical support of bards and clerics, warriors...

Or..instead of bless... meteor storm..or blink..or plane shift..or maze..or dominate monster..or hold person..or fireball..or teleport..or force cage..or ..one of the many other options available which are completely unaffected by the caster having 10 different status effects applied to them...

Not sure if this was a reply to me, but the point was that a caster can be Frightened, Poisoned, Prone, Restrained, Grappled and have 5 levels of Exhaustion, in the middle of an active war zone and their ability to cast save or buff spells is 100% unaffected. It is unintuitive, anti-thematic...

This is some weird needlessly binary logic. Wanting an additional situational fail-state to exist is not the same as wanting everything to fail. Consider how many conditions exist that reduce the effectiveness of the "Attack" action, an action specifically for combat, basically all of them...

Except when you can't. Or fail to. I think the general premise is that spellcasting is powerful enough as is and should be more difficult to do in combat.

It seems like you're complaining about the potential for "poor GM-ing". The potential to be interrupted =/= the certainty of being interrupted. Being interrupted 100% of the time would involve a similar amount of "poor GM-ing" as when a GM creates terrain with impassable physical obstacles...

In exactly the same way that interruptible spellcasters would be less effective but not uneffective.

You think that's bad, try playing in an all martial party where the DM likes to use walls, wide pits, hordes and such.

As often happens, I appreciate the PF2e approach. Casting can trigger reactions attacks and, occasionally those reaction attacks can disrupt the spell (usually on a crit), but not every creature has the ability to react to spellcasting. So spellcasters have to be aware of their positioning...

Gotcha. Thanks! And to be fair, this is maximum tankiness as they'd likely burn out on discipline long before round 10 from stuns, reaction damage, save rerolls and other discipline-use abilities. So to get to round 10 and beyond they'd have to be making some significant sacrifices along the way.

Inclined to agree that insofar as there is an issue, it's likely a subclass issue. Edit: and further, assuming it's an issue, that it's likely only an issue beyond level 18 when the damage resist comes online. Edit 2: I think the question for other subclasses would be how they perform with the...

Thanks, that's about what I expected. I think the only wrinkle is that if the fight goes beyond 10 rounds, the monk has to re-up superior defense.

It occurs to me, I wonder how the UA monk does just going full sustain instead of flurrying. Topping up the temp hp each turn using patient defense would take off 13 or so damage per round from the dragon (after resistance). Or just include hands of healing from way of mercy when you flurry to...

Agreed. They gave it a lot more levers to pull and made it a lot easier to pull them. I'll miss the prior potence of stunning strike, but I'm happy to give it up for all that the monk is getting. Mainly just looking to keep in mind what the UA is giving up when we're looking at what it is...

It's also worth noting that the 5e PHB monk, with multiple chances to land a stun, had more potential to drop a monster's total DPR to zero for a round and set them up for some biiig incoming damage from all attacks coming in at advantage and a bunch of auto-failed dex saves..and all that with a...

Potentially. There's no requirement for a monk to have been in initiative to cast it, it lasts for 10 rounds, and invisibility is useful enough in exploration to be worth considering even if you aren't looking to pick a fight. Whether you would have lost a combat round worth of actions depends...

I think it's going to be hard to properly evaluate that ballgame at the moment since a large part of the damage gap the monk has always experienced in play is a result of a dearth of magic item (or feat) support for unarmed combat. Until we have a better idea of what that might look like, I...

I think what mostly happened is that the optimizer forums correctly identified that there is barely any progression in the PHB monk combat abilities between levels 10 and 17 and, also correctly, identified that the cool abilities at levels 17+ are unlikely to see much play at the table. And this...

They were already able to go invisible without concentration. No action required after the first. For this particular fight, dragon abilities would negate that, but it's more a peculiarity of the opponent than a reflection on the monks' relative tanking abilities between versions. I'd...

Right. My point was that the current phb monk also has damage resistance by level 20 (and concentration-free invisibility)..and evasion..and global save proficiency with save rerolls. The only additional tankiness that differs at level 20 is the attribute increase and the deflect. The deflect...