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  1. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I can only speak for myself, but what would happen is the player would only select orcs as a favoured enemy if they already know there will be orcs in the campaign or they have discussed it with me and we've confirmed opportunities to face orcs will be sufficient to satisfy them. Generally...
  2. SableWyvern

    What does it take for an RPG to die?

    I've used it for fairly conventional D&D-esque adventuring through Mirkwood, Moria and places in between. For low-powered urban hijinks in Tharbad. For extremely high level play as Noldor, Vanyar and others conducting special forces actions into Melkor's domain. As others have said, it's not...
  3. SableWyvern

    What does it take for an RPG to die?

    We pottered around with red box BECMI a tiny bit. Then I bought a friend's older brother's copy of MERP and started running it on my 13th birthday. Cue ten years of consistently running MERP and RM. While I've branched out a lot more since then, I always go back to RM; my next campaign is likely...
  4. SableWyvern

    What does it take for an RPG to die?

    I stand by my statement. It doesn't matter to me.
  5. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    In the first post, I'm saying, "People can enjoy whatever they like in their own games." In the second, I'm saying, "This is how I handle a situation where I'm confident there will be a negative outcome unless I step in." I can't see how that's contradictory, unless you're suggesting that I'm...
  6. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Well, if the original statement was an absolute, I disagree with that as well, and will give @hawkeyefan the benefit of the doubt in being somewhat justified in replying similarly.
  7. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Right. Hawkeyfan has spoken. Heceforth no one should waste their time with that and, if they chose to do so, they must be playing wrong. For some people, it might not be considered a waste of time. That's their call to make, in their own game, not yours.
  8. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I'm not sure either, then. I do know that, if my players are fixated on some meaningless minutiae and it looks like it's going to result in a lot of boring, frustrating, time wasting in the real world, that no one will enjoy, I'll certainly tell my players and find away to avoid that. I can...
  9. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    If the player enjoys the style of play being discussed, where the aim is to withhold this type information, then one would assume the players themselves care. And I don't understand why you talk about how player agency is so important, but refuse to consider that the players, in this case, might...
  10. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    In the hypothetical, the player wants to actually solve the mystery in the same way their character would. Not merely play a character who solves a mystery, but actually work through the same steps to solve it, with the same perspective of events as the character has. If you give the player the...
  11. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    OK, so I said that a very specific comparison pemerton made was unreasonable. And you are trying to argue with me over something that has nothing to do with that specific comparison. Go argue with those "very same people who want their terms accepted", don't go trying to twist something I've...
  12. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    So, to be clear, you feel that a typical Actual Play and the original Dragonlance modules inherently offer high amounts of player agency?
  13. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    The comment where you did so was a bit earlier in the conversation, prior to the first part of said conversation that I quoted. This is the part where you imply that it's hypocritical of @AlViking to complain about you claiming their style of play (which is intended to focus on providing...
  14. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I have no experience with BW, but this just sounds like a roundabout way of saying, "I don't want to play Burning Wheel, but if I did play anyway, I'd do it without buying into the premise and actively trying to subvert it." If the game is about creating a character with beliefs that will cause...
  15. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    From where I'm sitting, all it's illustrating is that it's easy to craft an example that at least superficially appears to suit any given argument, if the example doesn't need to have any basis in reality. Your example is an attempt to suggests that if someone compares two things and decides...
  16. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    That's a nice hypothetical, but is anyone actually claiming that Adventure Paths inherently offer the same degree of agency as game styles specifically designed to promote agency? Is that person part of a large group of like-minded people? I don't think it's controversial to suggest that APs...
  17. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    A lot of this post seems to me to be pointless quibbling over the definition of contrivance, things that come across as "Technically, you could call this contrivance, so why are you OK with that?" I'm OK with it because it's not the type of contrivance that bothers me, or I don't think of it as...
  18. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    My response to the narrativist response is that I don't generally like the contrivance and a style of play that embraces it is not usually what I'm looking for. It's really just as simple as that. Now, taking a step back and looking at things objectively, it is always possible that when I run...
  19. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    It's like if you give someone a car, they might be able to do what they want with it but, at the end of the day, it's still a car. Except ... they might decide to pull it apart and use it to build all sorts of things that have nothing to do with what a car is for. At which point, the car is no...
  20. SableWyvern

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    The Pope and (I believe) the King of England were the two actual comparisons made via analogy earlier in the thread.
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