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And as far as the mundane vs magical distinction is concerned: there’s still a difference in 4e. You can’t polymorph with ”mundane” powers, or summon creatures. It’s not as if all the power sources cover identical effects.

I talked about this in the part you left out. 5e spells are better at bypassing challenges because they are more likely to be binary and don’t require checks nearly as often. Curing diseases is a great example that happens in lower to mid level play. The 5e phantom steed has no checks involved...

I’m saying that your impression is based on a faulty premise where the powers, rituals, and magic items are less numerous and varied than what they actually are in the printed material. For example, you weren’t aware that there’s a ritual to scramble a portal, changing its destination. Or did...

No, I understand the question. My answer is that the impression of 4e being samey is the result of two things: presentation and lack of knowledge. Of course 4e powers and rituals look samey and less powerful if you only know what 4e Magic Missile, Cleave, and Magic Mouth can do, but are unaware...

The ultimate reason why I think 4e has been memefied as samey has been mentioned in the thread: the presentation. A wizard spell, a fighter exploit, a magic item power all have very similar if not identical rules presentation. If you don't play the game or have played it only a little bit, the...

And if I'm allowed to rant a bit: People sometimes bring up 4e leader minor action healing as an example of sameyness. All those healing powers have differences however. But guess what -- in 5e, the bonus action quick heal is exactly the same among all the classes. Healing word is used by...

There are so many ways you can still accomplish the scenario in 4e. There are items and powers and rituals that allow you to instantly get to safety. Instant Portal, Exodus Knife, Mordenkainen's Mansion, Quick Portal, etc. This stuff does exist in 4e. I don't agree that the 4e powers and...

The portal rituals do not explicitly state that the created portal is NOT a two-way portal. In addition, Manual of the Planes says that most portals allow for two-way travel, and that only some portals are one-way only. Now, obviously this is a case where a DM might rule it either way, but even...

Can you create a 5e rogue who can cure diseases, grant long-distance flight, and ride around on a giant floating sword, and who’s a vampire and a werewolf too? In 4e you can.

You could in fact ride around on an enlarged disembodied hand, a skull, a clockwork scorpion, or even a sword or a hammer.

Teleportation rituals in 4e create portals. Those portals stay open, and the duration is determined by the ritual caster’s skill check. Thus, you can open the portal, go through, and force the target through the portal back to where you came from.

As I mentioned earlier, you would create a wizard since 4e classes have unique spell/power lists. Your two 1st-level at-will wizard spells would be Howling Wall and Hypnotism, neither which deal damage. You also receive cantrips (wizard-only utilities at level 1), which could be...

All those spells or their equivalents exist in 4e. The exception is that they are wizard-only spells — sorcerers have their own unique spell list. For attack spells, the 4e version can select non-damaging control spells. By the way, 4e has dedicated support for a total pacifist cleric, unlike...

Not true. There are powers that have a longer duration. Goodberry and Cloud Chariot for example.

Fire bolt = 4e fiery blast. Silent image is in 4e. Plane shift (planar travel magic) is in 4e. Bless is in 4e. Goodberry is in 4e. Resurrection is in 4e. Arcane eye exists in various forms in 4e. Clone is not in 4e. Mordenkainen's Mansion is in 4e. Etherealness's function exists in 4e...

The 4e barbarian does have Charisma or Constitution as secondary after Strength, so WotC recognized the archetype already back in 2009.

Yes, you left them out to frame the classes in favor of the 5e fighter. Still, the 3rd-level 4e fighter does indeed have access to more than 6 options. And I’ve seen them in play too. If we want to talk about what the 4e fighter can pull off, let’s include things like stunning and...

Charge, basic attack, bull rush, grab, distract, first aid, total defense, ready, delay, second wind, magic item powers... Your framing was quite deceptive as you listed all these various things the 5e battlemaster could do, while the 4e fighter supposedly only has 6 powers to choose from. But...

I’ve seen aid attack/defense used, and bull rush, and grab. And I’ve seen their equivalents used in 5e. Still doesn’t change the fact that the 4e fighter isn’t restricted to 2 at-will powers. The framing in your post was pretty questionable.

No, you didn’t, but you did list actions like shove, help, and grapple as the 5e fighter’s options, yet framed it as if the 4e fighter only had 2 at-will options when they also can grab, aid attack/defense, and bull rush (among others).