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Then there's nothing to discuss because it's clearly not railroading unless we're assuming things that are unstated to be the case. That's why I brought up the original context. Because it's absolutely worthless without it.

So? Go back to 2011 and take it up with them then.

My example is directly equivalent to the orginal quantom ogre situation. Or if you think it's not you can explain why you think I've got it wrong. Now if you have the wrong understanding of what the quantom ogre situation actually is then I have provided quotes and links so you can rectify that.

No one has suggested such a ridiculous thing. See the post right above yours. That's not relevant to the issue at hand,

It's not the time the combat takes, it's the time the things that aren't combat take.

It doesn't have to be ogre related. In the original situation the GM gave the players a choice - but that choice was meaningless. That's the loss of agency. The GM could have just skipped asking the party where they wanted to go first and aggressively framed the scene. "Ok so you choose one...

Ok think about it this way. My character has 1hp and this is an old school game where 0hp is death. I know that if I have to fight a monster my character will probably die. However, we are this close to finishing the adventure. I decide that even if the chance of finding the macguffin is...

No. It's about the GM improvising the encounter on the spot. Think about it this way. The GM for some reason decides to roll a random encounter before the session. He rolls a 4. He doesn't even check what that encounter is. He just rights down a 4. It so happens that 4 means an Ogre. So...

In a sense they are. The agency here is the possibilty of making the right choice the first time. Even if they don't know what it is. If part of the group's understanding is that the GM will fudge these things around for a more interesting result then there's no issue. But if the players...

Look. Here's the quantom ogre rephrased in slightly different terms. At the end of a last corridor in the dungeon there are three doors. Behind one of the doors in the macguffin. The players don't know which door and all the doors are identical so there is no way to know. If they find the...

Basically what Crimson Longinus said. Ultimately, a reset at the end of every session would be ideal. It would mean less tracking and players wouldn't be going into the session know that they probably won't get a chance to use their coolest class features or spells this week. It's also worth...

Yes. This is my biggest issue with the rest schedule. If I try to follow WotC's timing, too long passes in real time before players get to refresh their stuff. Changing the rest schedule in the game doesn't resolve this.

As far as rest schedules go, non-combat encounters only count if they use up combat level resources. Think about it in terms of exploring an old school dungeon. If you can manage 8 fights before a rest, then if you can sneak around or talk your way around another 8 then that's so much further...

Not quite - see the original context above. It's closer to a random encounter with three different entries which the GM pretends to roll, but actually he picks the result he wants.

Ok probably if people are going to discuss the quantom ogre it's worth at least reviewing the original discussion. The ogre first arose in a blog post here: And in result, another blog post at hack and slash made the ogre quantom and created a spectre which has haunted discussion of gaming...

Only if it means the ratio changes in practice. Althought that's part of the reason I put a hard limit on short rests. If you're regularly doing 1 combat days, then it improves the balance toward what the game intends. In theory it could go the other way and lead to 15 encounter days, but in...

Oh no. Not Quantum Ogres again. The issue needs a new example. The whole Ogre thing never gets anywhere. Everyone always seems to bring too many unstated assumptions of their own about what's going on in such situations and therefore everyone talks past each other.

Yes but companies like Paizo or Modiphius can do that already. They're enough in the public eye that any new product they put out will get the attention needed to find an audience if there is one.

I don't get it. What's TSR really worth these days without D&D that anyone should spend real money to buy it? Say you could kickstart Star Frontiers and maybe Top Secret S/I, or who knows Buck Rogers in the 25th Century - how long would that last beyond the initial nostalgia burst?

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