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  1. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Yes, and that’s unfortunate. Despite what some of my more critical posts might suggest, I genuinely believe most people can be drawn into a productive conversation by engaging with their concerns and showing that those concerns are taken seriously. And for those who aren’t responsive to that...
  2. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I agree, and that’s exactly why I emphasized that clarity is the responsibility of everyone involved. Redefinitions aren’t always obvious at first, and I’ve been in plenty of discussions where it takes time to realize we’re not even using the same language. That’s no one person’s fault. But I’d...
  3. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I don’t dismiss that definitional disagreements can be meaningful, especially when they reflect different priorities, like what @pemerton is analyzing versus what most hobbyists care about in play. But that’s also why clarity is so important. When someone redefines a widely-used term like...
  4. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Without knowing the specifics of what you’re referring to, all I can say is this: look at what I said earlier about @pemerton’s use of “railroading” versus the more common usage. Or the earlier posts about shared control over the fiction as a creative goal for some posters here. Unless there’s a...
  5. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    That kind of one-word dismissal doesn’t really advance the discussion. If you disagree with Maxperson’s claim that the referee can control most of the fiction without it being a railroad, then say why. Otherwise, it just shuts down the exchange instead of clarifying the disagreement.
  6. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Reflecting on the issue you raised regarding player agency, referee control, and the shared fiction, it felt familiar. Then it hit me: it raises the same concerns that Ron Edwards addresses in his essay "Narrativism: Story Now." What Edwards calls The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast is the...
  7. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Thanks for sharing this, and it clarifies your approach. @Bedrockgames loves the Wuxia genre, and we had several discussions about the genre and tabletop roleplaying. I even participated in a session and had fun. While I am not a fan of the genre, or well-versed in it. Luckily, I do like the...
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  11. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Mrs. Fezziwig has my sympathy. “Expensive” might actually be the more honest word some days. You're right about the reality on the ground, D&D, retroclones, PbtA, and a few others dominate shelf space and con slots. But that’s a reflection of the old economy, where distribution channels had...
  12. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Your analysis focuses on degrees of sandbox, but this kind of quantification, “more kinds of agency = more sandbox”, is a fallacy. It treats sandbox play as if it’s about turning up the volume or increasing the number of inputs players have, like it’s a matter of dialing in maximum agency. But...
  13. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    What you wrote before and after that is appreciated. But the quote above illustrates why there’s strong pushback from myself and others in this thread. The different variations of agency serve different creative goals. They promote different kinds of change, and they rely on different...
  14. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I appreciate the clarification, and I get your Wynton Marsalis example. In the 21st century, that kind of fandom pressure just doesn’t matter. Anyone who wants to build something, sandbox, narrative, shared authority, whatever, can do it at a professional level in the time they have for a...
  15. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    What you are both engaging in is not neutral analysis but rhetorical sleight of hand. When you frame sandbox campaigns, particularly those rooted in traditional procedures, as “vehicles for GM prep,” and then position that as ideologically suspect, you are not offering critique; you are...
  16. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Yes. You are a making a general claim
  17. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    That is correct I use a system of rules to adjudicate specific actions the players do as their characters in my living world sandbox campaigns. I don't use it a game with objectives, or victory experience. Experience is earned as a result of the players role-playing their characters and...
  18. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    I’ve seen this too. While we may disagree on how often it occurs, I agree it does happen. Having been involved in organized gaming and talked with others, your experience makes sense. But applying that experience to a specific referee or conversation commits an ecological fallacy. Just because...
  19. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    Speaking as someone who has successfully defied authority on multiple occasions, I can say: not every situation where someone is in charge is about 'defying the man.' Sometimes leadership is just that, leadership. And frankly, adopting defiance as a default attitude is a dead end. It rests on...
  20. R

    D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

    The way I account for this is something I’ve observed in how people go about their day: there’s always a lot going on around them, but they only focus on a handful of things at a time. I start by developing the Initial Context before the campaign begins. I work with each player individually to...
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