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you don't see how 'on a success you navigated the weak sections of the wall and reached the top, on a failure you didn't and fell' is different from 'on a success the wall was entirely solid and you climb it, on a failure it is a crumbly mess and you fall' i guess if you care about nothing but...

no, you misunderstand, i said i would never change the state of the fiction in response to a check, if the wall is solid it's solid, if it's crumbling it's crumbling but i'd never alter or decide that as a result of the climb check, the player might fall on a failure from a crumbing handhold but...

untrue, a complication is still a complication even if you have people who are skilled enough that dealing with it isn't an issue.

i realize there can be other complications, i was just trying to illustrate how deciding if the cook is there independently beforehand is different to deciding if they're there based on the results of the player's check.

and you've been told just as many times that others feel very different, that the end results are not the same, and how people feel about the end results are not the same. edit: when the state of the fiction is decided before the results of the check are known the consequences will be...

i feel like you must've been told several times over by now, please stop claiming no-one's explained it to you: the difference is that in being decided beforehand the result and state of the world is independent and in no way influenced by the outcome of the skill check.

but when the failure option presented wasn't 'the cook heard you and woke up' but 'the cook just so happened to be in the kitchen at X-AM in the morning' that's a little harder for us to swallow as the consequences of the thief's actions.

i think this is part of the issue in the conversation, common-use word meanings are getting confused with the jargon-uses.

the point is competent people 'make their own luck' by making different choices and taking different actions which have better odds of succeeding or even no chance of failure, not simply by making it generically 'more likely' that the cook isn't going to be on the other side of the door. the...

competent people who 'make their own luck' still can't control the universe

it's not more realistic if complications happen less when competent people are performing the task, the world doesn't care who is performing the task or how skilled they are, be it the three stooges or james bond, if the cook is going to be on the other side of the door then the cook is going to...

it's very simple it's different from a wandering monster roll whether they are here or there because with a wandering monster roll it is not determined where they are by someone else's skill at picking a lock.

your assertions that they are 'equally quantum' are untrue when for one roll the chances of the location of the cook has modifiers derived from the skill of the person performing the check. it matters that it is an independent roll.

it's not inconsistent, the wandering monster is not being determined by the same roll that the players are using for a check, it is determined by A roll, a neutral independent roll, but not THE (skill) roll, unlike the cook. it's really not that complicated a distinction.

agreed, being a skillmonkey or the like really isn't a viable standalone class concept in 5e

of course they are completely able to judge when the right time for them to enter should be, however this still gives them absolutely zero influence over when anyone else, especially their opponents, will enter the situation. however the skill isn't burglary, it's lockpicking(or specifically to...

nah, it was healing elixir i was thinking of, i looked it up afterwards

okay but this is part of the core problem you're missing, yes, the dice roll to unlock the door is something that should be influenced by the character's ability rating, however that same dice roll influenced by their stats/skills is also being used to determine their luck in the situation which...

the problem was never with when the decision was being made, the problem was always with the state of the world changing between the functionally unrelated roll succeeding or failing. is there a cook behind the door? we can't know until we make this causally unrelated lockpicking check!

What’s that one spell that lets you create a potion using a spell slot? Healing elixir? That seems appropriate