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  1. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    I'm confused about why people think Oriental Adventures is particularly relevant to ongoing issues for D&D to do better? It was written by writers who no longer work for a company that no longer exists, over a generation ago. That doesn't mean that problems it may have no longer exist, but it...
  2. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    No. In many cases that is correct. But the meaning of words in context absolutely matters.
  3. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Was 'Oriental' considered racist when the book was written?
  4. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    I think it's inevitable that people are going to be reluctant to explore other cultures in the current climate. It's not just the need to do research and be resepectful, but the mere fact that one's identity can immediately make one's attempts to explore cultures not one's own suspect. Yes one...
  5. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    I think the influence of Lovecraft on D&D is pretty big. Not so much on the core game at all, but frequently on the kind of monsters that show up and aspects of the way pulp monsters are used in the game. Obviously there's material like the Illithiads, Aboleth, the Far Realm etc. , but there's...
  6. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Just put a warning next to his name in the reading list and people can use their own judgement rather than being treated like fragile porcelain. It would be wrong to leave Lovecraft off an inspirational reading list because he's an important part of the history of the game. If we're going to...
  7. M

    D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

    Context dependent. They mean the game doesn't assume magic items as necessary to keep up with the math of the game as in 4e or 3e. So a magic item is pure bonus. (Of course this solves nothing).
  8. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Problem is some of them might meet current standards. Some of them may well have been written by people who were very careful and thoughtful about what they're doing. I think part of the point of the disclaimer is to avoid being forced to go into the weeds on indvidual products - which could...
  9. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Well if we want an alternative to the podcast, there's always this article. (Which truly is dreadful - never trust the writing of anyone who uses the phrase "always already"). Does anyone know of any writing on the topic that's actually good?
  10. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Ok yes. And I agree with that. However, we have discussed that at some length in this thread already, and a little about the possible issues with honour. Are there things we haven't discussed? I'm still somewhat confused about what is supposed to be so harmful that Daniel Kwan thought WotC...
  11. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Maybe someone should summarise some of their other main criticisms of the book for discussion? Part of the problem with discussion of the issue is the main source of criticism is an interminably long podcast discussion going on episode after episode. Is there someone here who actually watched...
  12. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    I'm old enough to remember when "It's only censorship when the government does it" was a right wing talking point.
  13. M

    D&D 5E (2014) What Level is the Wizard vs. the Fighter?

    Fighter: I do one thing in combat very very well. Wizard: I do the same thing reasonably well, plus I do a lot of other things in combat too like take out hordes of minions and impose control. Oh and also outside combat I break the world. Fighter: I climb better than you though! Wizard...
  14. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Rokugan is...interesting. For one thing as a game, it's not just a "D&D style setting but Japanese". It's genuinely trying to present a setting focused on a rather different more poltical kind of gaming experience (to the extent that the upcoming 5e edition has already stated how they're going...
  15. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    What it is, is basically a book club reading that's recorded. It really needs to be understood in that context. The people doing it are also not really true experts. (In the Legends of the Five Rings podcast this book was recommended - I had red flags coming up for me within a few pages so I...
  16. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Sounds a lot like chivalry, and the fact that the English King who made the biggest deal about chivalry, Edward III, was also the one who first introduced long bows and cannons into medieval warfare.
  17. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Yeah but from what I understand the modern conception, that honour was everything during the Sengoku period of Japan that we see reflected in games like Legends of the Five Rings, "Honour is stronger than steel" was not really anymore true of Japan than it was of medieval Europe.
  18. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Generally the player controls their character's own self-perceptions. In any case, the problem with such systems is not that they track someone's internal sense of their own honour, it's that they tend to confuse honour as a measure of social standing with one's sense of ones own ethical...
  19. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    It doesn’t really matter. By that definition there’s no reason to track it.
  20. M

    Oriental Adventures, was it really that racist?

    Actually, from what I remember they link honour to the general sense of exoticism. Western characters don't need honour scores, but eastern characters have their actions constrained in all kinds of weird ways as a means of emphasising their exotic differences. Which I think, is fair to a...
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