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I suggest you keep repeating it until you get it right. Bless does *not* negate the SS/GWM penalty. It simply changes the attack bonus range. If you need an 8 to hit, using SS gives you a -5 penalty and you need a 13. Getting a 3 on Bless does not make it a -2 penalty. It means you could hit...

The math still does not support you. They would have to already be doing double average before SS in order to achieve what you are claiming, and that is for a 4 person party.

Do you have any idea what a complete pain in the butt it would be trying to move, let alone fight, with swords and bows just 'dangling' from your back pack? Not to mention how the ropes would have to be short, which would limit the use of the weapon, or long, which would let them drag on the...

But they can't. It helps them do a lot of damage, but it usually requires other players to assist. (Bless, Faerie Fire, Knock Prone, etc.) And even then you are not going to be half of the groups output unless everyone else is just a buff-bot sitting and watching.

BWAHAhahaha.... Because of other work I do and sites I frequent, I am used to MEDIA being the heading for the media (blogs, newspaper, etc) to get things like contact names, press releases, etc. So I never even looked under that heading, and thus had a bugger hard time finding the articles I...

The object interaction table explicitly lists Draw or sheathe a sword. To try and claim that also allows one to draw and sheathe a sword is a bit of a reach.

Holy crud. I spend a day with the family and I am 7 pages behind.... For those looking for a 'fix' I would suggest looking at the combinations that are problematic in your games. I don't think the -5/+10 is the problem by itself. So something like only allowing the -5/+10 for 2 handed...

This is getting crazy time consuming. I may come and look at the chart put up on the last page, but its way too late at this point; I did want to apologize to Dave about Bless.... for whatever reason I somehow got locked on that it was rolled once.....instead of rolling for each attack as they...

Sorry, but that is way to incomplete to be considered 'in depth'. Fair enough, so you just dont' like any offensive feats. GWM, SS, CE, PAM, SM.... all of those will be more than a 10% boost.

Then we should get rid of any and all dice.... don't want to let the game be effected by dice....

I *am* using the stats from the monster manual. Through level 16, the party should find 5 rare and 3 very rare items. So by level 15 less than that. Of those items, only a fraction will actually be weapons, and then you better hope one of those is the weapon you want. But its kind of moot...

Nope, in general +X weapons make GWM *less* of a bonus. And things like Flametongue are even worse.

Haha..... or maybe the problem is you presented this 'data' without bothering to say "oh, none of this accounts for Bless nor GWM adjustments" Yeah, that could have been helpful. What makes real data actually 'real' is because it actually occurred. So how did you guys roll a 2.5? yes, but...

Define 'significantly' and define under what conditions......

Yeah.... that whole 'multiplication' fad really can't be trusted... Probably better if we stick with you just telling us how the game works. Maybe you can even provide more 'real' numbers like that 14.5 attack bonus. Or was it a 12 bonus? or is it a 17 bonus? Yeah, your stories seem much more...

You may be joking, but I have done that comparison. To prove how broken GWF was, they presented a fighter with GWM, PAM, Bless, and maybe something else. So I did the break down to show how much of that damage came from each source..... spoiler: It was not GWM.

Ah, so his AC should have been 19, which means GWM would have been even less effective. I believe you. I really do. But here is the deal... he got lucky. He needed a 13 to hit, and rolled it 5 out 6 times. Even with precision attack, he should have hit 3, maybe 4, times. So yes, if you get...

Okay, thank you for providing the information you could. Unfortunately, this just highlights the problem with "using real data" as you like to say. First, since this is a "real" encounter with "Real Data".... how do they have an attack bonus of 14.5? Shouldn't it be 14? or 15? Second, what...

I am not sure what you are counting as 'high level', by CR 9 the average AC is 17, by CR14 the average is 19. Using the DMG suggestions, it is possible, but not likely, that most PCs will have a +2 weapon by level 15. It is likely they will have a Very Rare item, but no guarantee on what it is.

Wow... how convenient. It was *not my scenario*. It was the one that Celtavian presented to 'prove' how unbalanced the feat was. Except his numbers didn't match up, and if he remembered them accurately, then the fighter was *really* lucky. But hey, if you don't like that scenario.... by all...