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You don’t think that your description of what the GM does is helping to drive the game? And do you not agree that the rules may do so, too? See my example about attack and damage rules and how they can shape what happens.

I don’t know if I entirely agree. I think you’re onto something with how the mechanics drive play in some modern games (AW and its more faithful derivatives) but I also think that the binary pass/fail does similar work in a more traditional approach. The mechanics still dictate the type of...

I’m not sure… I think we can find examples of players being able to influence the game beyond the actions of their characters, which seems to be what you’re getting at, pretty early in the hobby’s development. I suppose I’m not sure what you mean by “more than just Lara Croft stuff”. I mean…...

Sure. Do you have any examples you can share that would support your statement that older games are better when it comes to implementation, presentation, selection of mechanics, or open discussion about the reason for mechanics? Exactly. This is a great example. Is anyone really going to say...

That's why I've specifically said I don't think that it makes as much sense to speak about mechanics as it does how they are implemented and presented and examined.

What games do you guys have in mind?

Well yes, when you selectively quote and remove the context of a post by doing so, you can then interpret things differently than intended. My post said: I was talking about specific things. Implementation, presentation, selection of mechanics, open discussion about the reason for...

Well, I also explained why newer is better in this context. And hey, at least I'm trying to add to the conversation instead of endlessly eeyoring everything.

Sure, but it seems to me like people are resisting the very idea that modern may equal better in some cases. As I said earlier, I don't tend to think of mechanics as being modern, because there are examples of most types of game mechanics early in the hobby's history. However, how the...

Would anyone really argue that the modern presentation used in Old School Essentials isn't what makes it great? Would anyone argue that it's not an improvement? Would anyone say that the many years of presentation of RPGs was not a factor? I mean... sometimes newer is better. It's okay.

I've seen it. Not for hours on end... but I don't think it takes hours for it to be disruptive or counterproductive (assuming that not everyone is happy with such play, because if they are, then they can carry on). I've had plenty of players who want to RP every small interaction. I've played...

Double post.

I’ve never really seen this or worried about it. But we were talking about the structure of play. I’ve GMed so many games that didn’t have THE ADVENTURE as the structure of play. I don’t think players Care as much about this kind of thing as they do if whatever you’re doing as GM results in a...

I like to roleplay, too! I just prefer to do it in scenes where I actually have a choice.

But there’s a more important difference. When I’m watching a film or reading a book, I’m not an active participant with the ability to affect how the story goes. In an RPG, I am. So, if we’re in a situation where there’s not really meant to be a choice, then I’d prefer to just narrate the...

Because it may not change anything. You can’t guarantee that it will enhance the players’ investment in the scenario. You are correct that it may, but it also may not. For me, I’d rather get to some kind of situation where I have decisions to make as my character. That’s the kind of stuff that...

Sure, but the point is that it can be done quickly. You can narrate it. You don't have to play it out and portray a teary-eyed king or what have you. Again, the context is for a prepared adventure that's going to happen.

Well, certainly you're saying it needs more than what I've claimed it needs. Why will they automatically care? Just because you're describing the person giving them the job? How can you decide that they care? No, my character was a native of Furyondy, and his brother had been killed in a...

I don’t know what “use it against the DM” means. It’s not a concern I have when I GM. Regarding what players like, I think it varies enough that saying what “most” like is kind of silly. I don’t think you’ve taken the comment in the context of the conversation. It’s not an argument against...

Of course it does. I mentioned the Palladium system earlier in the thread. I don’t feel a whole lot of intentional design went into its many components. I feel like Kevin Siembada kind of riffed on things with D&D in mind, and how certain things could be done differently than D&D, and that was...